First of all, I am not one of the people who thinks that Bethesda removed classes to appeal to a more mainstream audience. Bethesda has always been passionate about making their games good and they are always loyal to their fans.

Bethesda removed classes because they wanted to take an approach where you actually be who you want to be. If you use daggers a lot, you will get better at daggers. You play how you want, and your character gets better at what you do,
like he would in real life.



This is a good idea on paper, but simply won't work. We are playing an RPG game. There is no way us gamers are going to just play the game without paying attention to stats, and just do what we feel like while our characters levels up according to our "personality".
Without any limitations and things to define our character (classes,) we will all find ourselves switching from a sword to bow, because our marksman skill isn't high enough, etc.

Putting everyone on a blank slate is not a good idea on an RPG game, even though in theory it would be a great immersion feature.

I don't care about "immersion".Provided perks don't force us to make sure a level in a certain skill is high enough for the next level-up or we lose our chance to obtain the related perk, this new approach sounds great, to me. I'll level up what I care about leveling up at my own pace... if perks do not do what I hope they don't.

What you're saying makes no sense... :confused:

It sounds good on paper but wouldn't work? I wasn't aware you played the game already.

So you've played the game then? You've tested the no class system out enough for all of us to confirm that it just doesn't work? Whew, thanks, you just saved me $60.

Im Ok with classes gone, because I am not forced to stick with something IMHO

I don't understand this is the first elder scrolls game without classes.

Is this post serious? Switching back and forth without classes? Does your mom dress you too?

The bottom line is Bethesda is done holding our hand ... and I'm glad. Whatever you WANT to use is what you get good at ... how much better can it get? You don't need a piece of paper to tell you who you are ... it's something you just know

In Oblivion, classes were basically just a name, you could still do and be who you want, no matter what skills you chose in the beginning.
So, not much of a change for me there.

This. The majority of the OP is incoherent and based on spectral evidence.

if you nit pick like that then youll have a pretty even character.... other wise what you use the most will be the strongest and will lvl untill it maxes out and 100 then your lvling will focus on other skill to make you lvl... which may take longer but still will work.

Ywp. I don't think I ever chose a pre-named class... I would just make up a type of class because I liked to, and then just roll with what skills I thought I wanted to use for this character or that character. You could pick a Mage class, and use almost no magic, just hack and slash your way to level 50... if you were so inclined. My point being that by calling you a mage didn't make you one - your game play made you one - using magic, etc.

You use the skills you like and that levels you. This won't work how? Your post if very confusing.

I have no problem with what they are doing for skyrim. Heck, I've alway made custom classes, because the preset ones didn't suit what I wanted.

Previously, the preset classes had Beth's concept of what a "warrior" was , which may not have been what the player visioned. the bottom line none the less, is that the new approach is, "screw what we think, what do you as the player think?" :wink_smile:

What you say really doesn't make much sense.. they removed the stats so you cannot focus on them so there are no stats to focus on lol. Life Magicka and Stamina are the only things you will focus on aside the fun of playing your character the way you want. If they showed us the stats then yes.. i can see people worrying too much about straying from their "perfect path" but taking it away will fix that issue. Unless someone makes a mod for it.. I wouldn't download it though.

I don't see the conflict here.

If who you want to "be" is someone more skilled at marksman with some cool archery perk, then practice using your bow for a while.

If who you want to be is someone who never used a bow in his life, don't use a bow.

For many people a big part of the fun of an RPG is planning your build carefully and optimizing the character as much as you can within the parameters of the game. Even this is still "being who you want to be."

There are no minor and major skills, so it's not like you have to increase some skill you never use to raise the character level.

Also, they spent a lot of dev time figuring out how to fix the leveling problems from Oblivion, so you don't have to avoid leveling up either.

Actually, even worse. Picking majors can screw up a character bad if stats aren't too hot, due to overusing the major skills with not enough diversity.

I'm glad classes are gone, I like a more seamless leveling system. I didn't need to change a thing in FO3's leveling system, and I absolutely LOVED GCD/nGCD in MW and OB, respectively. Those leveling systems allowed me to create more of a character I envisioned, rather than power game, take notes, etc.

Hell, I NEVER used the pre-mades, as the skills and stats did not suit what I wanted to make or envisioned. In FO3, one can easily make their own class, without having to name them. Made a crazed scientist class, sniper class, cowboy class, etc, and I didn't need a title to tell me what I already wanted. All I had to do was level the skills that fit, and pick the appropriate perks to reflect the class and role of the character I wanted. And you know what, it beat the snot out of MW and OB's classes.

I agree with the OP completely


No one who has played at least the last 2 TES games is going to be stat stupid

You dont play morrowind or oblivion and just let the skills go up willy nilly

And you arent going to be able to that here either unless the game is easy, they want you to play with freedom from the stats but an RPG with no stats is an action adventure game.

Obviously his mom still dresses him ... he needs a screen and a title to know who he is. HE WONT KNOW WHAT WEAPON TO USE IF BETHESDA DOSENT TELL HIM WHAT TO DO! AHHHHHHHH OH NOOOOOO!!!!!

Obviously his mom still dresses him ... he needs a screen and a title to know who he is. HE WONT KNOW WHAT WEAPON TO USE IF BETHESDA DOSENT TELL HIM WHAT TO DO! AHHHHHHHH OH NOOOOOO!!!!!

I just don't see how this is going to be any different than how a class system would work. Just play how you want to play, just as you would if there was a class system in there. There is only going to be so much content in the game for you to level up with.

Say you wanted to play as a warrior. You can go the Fighter's Guild, Mage's Guild, Thieves Guild, Dark Brotherhood, etc. and eventually you're going to run out of content. It's not like they expect you to level up every single skill now.

I understand what you're saying, OP, but it really doesn't make much difference when it comes to immersion. If you planned on playing a mage class, just use the mage skills. If you decide one day that you want to be a mage, but the next day a warrior, you won't have to create a new character. You can just pick up where the character left off. You can still "choose a class". Just play like a "pure" mage just as you would if there was class selection.

Yep. In fact, people trying to do "controlled" leveling would normally pick Major skills that they weren't actually going to use. I used non-Major skills all the time, personally.... there wasn't anything stopping you. :shrug:



I'm reasonably certain, that Bethesda is hoping to get lots of new players. So people "who played at least the last 2 TES games" aren't necessarily the target for them to design the game around.

wow you havent even played the game and you know this feature wont work?
you have skillz
...but not really

The way Perks have worked in Fallout is that for some, you need to either reach a certain level to get the Perk or a skill had to be at a certain level or both....to get that Perk. The Perk doesn't go away if you don't meet the requirement; it stays there until you meet the requirement and you can take it later. If that's how it's going to work in Skyrim, we kind of will be watching "stats" and that's fine by me because I tend to make a rounded character who uses everything but some skills more than others.

:tes:

The problem was that with Fallout 3, skills didn't improve from doing things, they improved from the character personally choosing which to improve at level-up. Some people may like watching stats, but I kind of hoped this system would get rid of the efficient leveling and just let me kick back and enjoy the game as I did Fallout 3, for a change.