Ugh. All threads in this forum lead to the same place...

I hope attributes are gone, or at least remain as the constant difference between the races and genders without the ability to increase them in the game, except for rare occasions like in the Fallout 3 game.

If you can increase attributes in the game, you would play for the sake of it, and would grind your skills in order to improve your attributes, and this is what made the previous games a repeat-fest play style.

Now we can play for the sake of the role playing, and enjoy the game without the pressure at the back of our minds about how to improve the attributes optimally.

Aside perhaps from the initial planning at character creation, I never think about that sort of thing. :shrug:

I'm still on the fence on whether they will be in or out, it was hinted at that they don't affect you as much but never clearly said they were removed entirely. If they are in then we won't have to worry about them, but if they aren't I feel Bethesda isn't stupid enough to not give something equally good or better then them as a replacement.

If they were still there wouldn't they have confirmed on twitter or something I mean releasing that isn't that big of a deal really. To me the proof that they are no longer there is that they haven't said a word about them yet at all.

I think the attributes are now Perks.



There are multiple tiers of perks, I imagine there will be tiers of perks for things like running/jumping/encumbrance/etc.... But they will be to set levels I imagine.



However, maybe there is more that we don't know. Maybe there are trainers in the world who can increase our attributes (like perks).

I play the same way. I pick a character and the skills that I actually intend to focus on. When leveling up I do pick the highest values (because I am using primarily the skills that I have chosen they fit with the character that I am playing), If there is a tie I choose at random. I do like to be able to look back when I done with a character and see that his strength grew or his intelligence barely moved. I am not a fan of the since some people can't control themselves, now no one can have the option.

Haha if attributes are gone this won't even be a RPG anymore it will just be a action-fantasy game.

They can take them out or leave them in. Doesn't really matter to me.

With the level up bonuses in the long run it made your attributes derivative of your skills anyway. Unless attributes have a unique effect on the player (and not just govern skills) I'm happy to see the end of them.

I don't see what there was to worry about anyhow. So if they remove attributes, so what? They have a system to replace them and we still have magicka, health and stamina. Seeing as how that they said that everytime you level you can choose to increase one of those three, it has pretty much confirmed attributes are removed and their function put somewhere else in the game.

Agree. Worst of all is the level up bonuses, that makes you struggle for random skill boosts before leveling up just to receive +5 in 3 different attributes. :facepalm:
I'd rather not see that again.

Also, attributes does not make an RPG. They're just a way to define your character, and can be replaced with something else like perks or maybe some choices in story this time, and not letting us join each faction in the game in the same playthrough.

This is how I like to play too, and I agree with your last sentence completely. Rules lawyers 1, role players 0.

I didn't think it was likely that attributes were removed either, but what is presented in this thread isn't definite proof that they're in, it's just logic that says they're likely to be in,

But I'm not too concerned about this either way, attributes have played an important part in the past Elder Scrolls games, and if Bethesda has removed attributrs, as we knew them, I'll assume it's because they're role has been replaced by something else, and if I'm wrong, then I'm wrong, worrying about it now isn't going to change anything, so I suppose I might as well wait to see how the new system works out.

This is a great question to ask Todd on the Podcast for GI on wensday!

I think its rather obvious. For the early part of the game you train with that guy. Obviously that training changes you. Rather then state you are x smart y enduring and z lucky you have a set basic racial abilties.. much like traits in fallout only a bit more oomph and more things going on. And your training adds on to that mix.

I don't think there will be much of the attributes system left in Skyrim, and I think that's a good thing.

First of all, increasing fatigue, magicka and health on levelup has huge consequences. It removes the need for the endurance stat and the intelligence stat. Personality and luck were already very iffy attributes. What you have left is strength, willpower, speed and agility.

Now for example strength could be a hidden multiplier, or a multiplier that you can see. For example, you could have a strength level. For every combat skill you raise, you'd raise your strength level in the same way your normal level is raised from all of your skills. The same could go for the other attributes that are left. It's just something that you increase naturally while raising skills. The game can show it, but it serves no function to show it. You can't raise it in some level up screen after all. Maybe you could use it to compare characters, but you could also just look at your skills.

Gee, I never really thought about my bonuses untill it was time to level up (and then I picked the ones which contributed to where I wanted my character to go). Therefore I NEVER tried to do things to assure I got +5 in any attribute. If I got a +5, which was rare, great, but trying to rig the system to get the max ruined the role playing aspect for me.

Oh well, we each play differently and still enjoy the game

Storm

I don't see how being permanently punished if you don't min/max which skills you work on each level enhances roleplaying. The moment I heard they changed the level system, I celebrated that the horrible multiplier system is probably dead. I think the attributes should naturally grow as you develop your skills.

I must admit I will be very surprised if they remove them entirely.

That, or they're taking the GCD approach to leveling them (they raise automatically according to skill use) in the background. This would get rid of the main complaint with the attributes system, which is bonuses (which I just ignored anyway because I play how I want to, and not how the game wants me to).

Just because they're giving us health, magicka, and stamina to level doesn't mean the system is gone.

As for my opinion on attributes, I really hope they're in. Attributes have been the backbone for the Elder Scrolls games since the beginning. As I stated, playing an Elder Scrolls game without them is like playing a Fallout game without S.P.E.C.I.A.L.

All I know is, if they are gone, they better have a damn good system to replace them with, otherwise Skyrim is a definite no buy for me.

No custom spells, no attributes, even more skills removed?
Hard to believe.
Is that definitely about TES game?
Game still work in progress lets don't panic.

More probably they copy any levelling mod out there. raising blade two levels raise strength 1 level or similar. Might also have a perk who let you raise them independent.
It's not shown as it's a step up in menu from skills.
Because we only has 18 skills, it might be that raising a skill might raise two attributes, marksman could raise agility 0.6 and strength 0.3 or similar.

Would be very strange if attributes are removed. Has not run into any RPG without them.
If something has been in Daggerfall, Morrowind and Oblivion it's probably in Skyrim to unless clearly stated otherwise.
It's like saying it will be no fighter guild in Skyrim as we has not heard about it.
Spears on the other hand is very unknown as it was not in Oblivion.

Todd said in an interview that they were going to make your choice of race important and that each race was going to be unique and different (or something like that) so how they going to do that without using attributes? Hopefully the diifference in races wont merely be cosmetic. Perhaps when you create your character you'll be told what your race choices strength, speed, intelligent etc is then after that maybe it just doesn't appear in your UI?

Since we do know that we have the option to increase our Health, Magicka or Fatigue Stamina with every level instead of attributes, Endurance, Intelligence and the way Stamina is being calculated are obviously being totally reworked if not downright removed along with the other Attributes. Also, since the Major/Minor skill system is being reworked to allow for a more organic character creation which doesn't totally [censored] us over should we choose to respecialize, I wouldn't be surprised if we didn't get to choose our character defining Attributes right away.

I'm kind of wonder how carrying capacity is going to be factored in if Strength is removed though, maybe it would be increased through perks or something.

Hmm...lets see...

Custom character creation? Check.
Skill based character progression? Check.
Game world that reacts specifically based on character progression? Check.

Nope, still qualifying as an Action/RPG