Why there aren't any spears : V - Skyrim

» Sun Oct 24, 2010 12:36 am

Seriously? People believe this [censored]?
Because those "console gamers" hate different weapons right? :bonk:

If you really think that is the way they would cater to "casual gamers", then you're absolutely wrong. I'm not even going to argue about this because if somebody believes something baffling as this, he obviously can't listen to reason...

I'm a console gamer and I don't want the game to be simplified or lose choices.

Please stop generalizing groups of people.

» Sat Oct 23, 2010 5:53 pm

Todd said himself that the reason attributes and skills were cut was because noobs create a character, without bothering to read the manual, then find out later that they didn't like that character.

Just to clarify a little on that one, here's the direct quote from Todd Howard:

...When the game starts, you play a little bit, then you, then a menu comes up and says "who do you wanna be?". And we sort of though: a lot of people pick their skills, then they play for a while, and then they realize: "Oh, I, I chose wrong. I didn't have enough information in the beginning of the game." So this time, you just play. All of your skills affect your leveling...

» Sun Oct 24, 2010 7:41 am

I hope people realize that neither Arena nor Daggerfall had spears. :whistling:

» Sat Oct 23, 2010 7:40 pm

Just to clarify a little on that one, here's the direct quote from Todd Howard:

That line doesn't work on your 3rd or 4th playthrough because you should know how the games work at that time, He's a crafty one though.

» Sun Oct 24, 2010 3:09 am

I hope people realize that neither Arena nor Daggerfall had spears. :whistling:

No, people see that "III" on Morrowind's case and think "I" or pretend everything Morrowind did was just like its predecessors. It's really quite comical when you know the truth behind the series' first two games.

I don't blame some people for liking spears, but they shouldn't be EXPECTING them rather than just hoping for them because it's an unrealistic expectation.

» Sun Oct 24, 2010 12:28 am

We don't have spears because nocturnal stole them all didn't you read the lore?

:bolt:

» Sat Oct 23, 2010 11:33 pm

I hope people realize that neither Arena nor Daggerfall had spears. :whistling:

No, people see that "III" on Morrowind's case and think "I" or pretend everything Morrowind did was just like its predecessors. It's really quite comical when you know the truth behind the series' first two games.

I don't blame some people for liking spears, but they shouldn't be EXPECTING them rather than just hoping for them because it's an unrealistic expectation.

ALSO, Neither Arena nor Daggerfall had crossbows. So, yeah.

» Sun Oct 24, 2010 4:04 am

In Morrowind there were complaints about them being overpowered. Mostly because they had a greater range than other melee weapons and you could backpeddle to saftey. I never did it myself, but as I hear it this spawned many complaints. Apparently Beth decided they were too difficult to fix, even though the backpeddling is gone now...

Or perhaps its another animation to make, where as they are going to make 2 handed weapons and 1 handed weapons share animations. So they don't want to spend the extra time making an animation, and quite frankly they've never been good at it.

Im sure there might be another excuse for them, but I think its one of the above.

» Sun Oct 24, 2010 9:22 am

ALSO, Neither Arena nor Daggerfall had crossbows. So, yeah.

Don't forget the lack of throwing weapons, presence of map-based fast-travel, and the lack of mushroom trees/ashlands in favor of "generic fantasy.

» Sun Oct 24, 2010 2:22 am

Again, neither http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Arena:Base_Weapons nor http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Daggerfall:Weapons had either spears or crossbows. Stop complaining, people.

» Sat Oct 23, 2010 7:04 pm

Again, neither http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Arena:Base_Weapons nor http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Daggerfall:Weapons had either spears or crossbows. Stop complaining, people.

Then this is where my stance separates from yours. I believe people have every right to want a favorite weapon of theirs in a game. I just don't believe they should expect it or start spewing some "dumbing-down" garbage that paints console gamers as scapegoats (to which I say that Demon's Souls, a console exclusive, has spears

).

» Sun Oct 24, 2010 7:49 am

I miss ALL the weapons types from Morrowind -- Even the speers. I say the more the merrier. One of the best things about these games is being able to go where you want, look how you want, and DO what you want. And I want to do is thrust a speer into a wood elf's face with better graphics than Elder Scrolls III. Each weapon has it's own flavor and tatical advantages and I hope they brought speers back in Skyrim.

» Sun Oct 24, 2010 2:32 am

Guys don't even try that crap about how previous games didnt have such and such, its INCREASING OPTIONS...and as such people like to spam, progression right? adding new features? etc etc? so please please don't Arena and Daggerfall didnt have Imperials or Orcs as a playable race either, would you be happy if they were taken out? like really don't even pull that strawman crap here.

» Sat Oct 23, 2010 11:34 pm

Guys don't even try that crap about how previous games didnt have such and such, its INCREASING OPTIONS...and as such people like to spam, progression right? adding new features? etc etc? so please please don't Arena and Daggerfall didnt have Imperials or Orcs either, would you be happy if they were taken out? like really don't even pull that strawman crap here.

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Arena:Orc#Orc and http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Daggerfall:Orc DID have Orcs. They just weren't a playable race until Morrowind.

» Sun Oct 24, 2010 10:55 am

Beauty in words. This is more or less my exact point. The animations aren't all that hard to do, and the balancing issues is a flapjack argument because other games have done it, and even Oblivion had all the pieces that they needed. Those can't be the reason.

Agreed. If the devs of crappy games such as the Dynasty Warrior series can easily include several different types of weapon animations (including spears and halberds) into their games, I can't see how animations would be a logical excuse for Bethesda to not include spears in Skyrim. For a company as good as Bethesda, animations should be the least of their worries. To those saying spears would be awkward in Skyrim: fighting a heavily armored guy with nothing but leather armor and a puny dagger is also awkward.

» Sun Oct 24, 2010 6:51 am

You know full well what I meant........ and for clarification i will edit my original post

» Sat Oct 23, 2010 11:21 pm

Arena and Daggerfall DID have Orcs. They just weren't a playable race until Morrowind.

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Arena:Orc#Orc
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Daggerfall:Orc

With your arguments, they should then be relegated to enemies and non-playable? Or is that a good addition?
But spears can't be a good addition?

What constitutes a good addition or a bad addition?

Agreed. If the devs of crappy games such as the Dynasty Warrior series can easily include several different types of weapon animations (including spears and halberds) into their games, I can't see how animations would be a logical excuse for Bethesda to not include spears in Skyrim. For a company as good as Bethesda, animations should be the least of their worries. To those saying spears would be awkward in Skyrim: fighting a heavily armored guy with nothing but leather armor and a puny dagger is also awkward.

Keep in mind they can't do ladders...

» Sun Oct 24, 2010 8:47 am

Spears are cool. The reason they're out is not because attack animations would be difficult to implement, but rather finishers and enemy reactions to being struck by a spear. Every enemy. In the game. I can see why they cut it, though I really wish they hadn't.

» Sat Oct 23, 2010 9:04 pm

are halbred/poleaxes in the game?

» Sun Oct 24, 2010 1:12 am

are halbred/poleaxes in the game?

They are Spears not in the Traditional sense and they show up in Concept art and in Screenshots so yeah.....

» Sat Oct 23, 2010 11:50 pm

In my opinion, I'm glad spears are not in, that means Bethesda can use their limited resources towards other things in the game that I think are far more important.

» Sat Oct 23, 2010 8:37 pm

In my opinion, I'm glad spears are not in, that means Bethesda can use their limited resources towards other things in the game that I think are far more important.

again ala making every object viewable in 3D in the inventory :teehee:

» Sun Oct 24, 2010 3:31 am

again ala making every object viewable in 3D in the inventory :teehee:

I forgot about that...
:sad:

» Sun Oct 24, 2010 7:40 am

With your arguments, they should then be relegated to enemies and non-playable? Or is that a good addition?
But spears can't be a good addition?

What constitutes a good addition or a bad addition?

Good addition: Spears implemented correctly, which shouldn't affect the implementation of other weapons.
Bad addition: Spears implemented incorrectly, which might affect the implementation of other weapons (as time was wasted on spears).

I'm all for more weapon choices (which I think is already confirmed for Skyrim), but only if each is implemented correctly. See what I mean?

» Sun Oct 24, 2010 4:14 am

again ala making every object viewable in 3D in the inventory :teehee:

I agree with you on that one too, however, Todd did use that feature to solve a puzzle in a dungeon, kinda like how you inspect items for clues in LA Noire. That sounds pretty fun to me