Why there aren't any spears

Post » Sat Oct 23, 2010 6:15 pm

A spear not in the Traditional sense isn't a spear I actually would not complain if they simply said no, there are no spears -fullstop- instead some PR about Not in the Traditional sense? when your going down that road its either a Halderd or Pole arm not a spear :facepalm: these Damage control statements aren't helping a thing. and animations shouldm't even be an issue at this point M&B has had spears for ages and animations in that game are comparable to a semi upgraded Morrowind.

every melee weapon in Oblivion used the same animations >_> effectively no variation :shrug:
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x a million...
 
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Post » Sat Oct 23, 2010 11:36 am

What does "not in the traditional sense" mean anyway? That's a pretty weird statement in itself.
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ruCkii
 
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Post » Sat Oct 23, 2010 6:45 pm

IMO, spear combat would be awkward.
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Travis
 
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Post » Sat Oct 23, 2010 6:17 pm

GUYS THINK WITH YOUR BRAINS FOR A MINUTE oblivion had what 15 addons and dlc's i think they might put them in somewhere. and if they don't "imm'a hurt 'em fools" says mr.t
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Elizabeth Falvey
 
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Post » Sat Oct 23, 2010 1:54 pm

Source for this information please.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mABmZETHaRE

Todd said they are superfluous.

GUYS THINK WITH YOUR BRAINS FOR A MINUTE oblivion had what 15 addons and dlc's i think they might put them in somewhere. and if they don't "imm'a hurt 'em fools" says mr.t

Yeah, OB had all that and they didn't add anything.

IMO, spear combat would be awkward.

You just don't know how to polish them :hubbahubba:
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Niisha
 
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Post » Sat Oct 23, 2010 5:32 pm

What does "not in the traditional sense" mean anyway? That's a pretty weird statement in itself.

Yeah it's indeed a bit strange :P
I can't be sure of course, but I think Todd just said it so that people wouldn't get as disappointed...
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Strawberry
 
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Post » Sat Oct 23, 2010 4:13 pm

Hard to implement. If you've looked, you would see that nearly none of the modern RPGs have spears in them, or they just don't work very well.

No, it's not about the animation at all, that's the easiest part, but the balancing and the whole usage issue. How to make them more than just a dagger with a longer reach without making it useless/overpowered and still have a unique sense of playstyle.

People mention Mount and Blades a lot, but from what I saw on videos I mainly seen a more awkward Oblivion animations with even less sense of impact... Also spears seemed to be mainly used for throwing...
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Oscar Vazquez
 
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Post » Sat Oct 23, 2010 9:53 pm

GUYS THINK WITH YOUR BRAINS FOR A MINUTE oblivion had what 15 addons and dlc's i think they might put them in somewhere. and if they don't "imm'a hurt 'em fools" says mr.t



case and point? no spears no new weapon types as in something other than Swords/Maces etc etc...


so yeah
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Kevin Jay
 
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Post » Sat Oct 23, 2010 9:31 pm

They're taken out because they would need to make a new set of animations. The swing sword and swing axe animations are pretty much the same. The poke with spear is different from the poke with sword.

Bethesda's animations are already crap, and adding spears would just make more animations, and therefore, more crap.
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GabiiE Liiziiouz
 
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Post » Sun Oct 24, 2010 3:08 am

Well for one thing, the blocking and bashing that they used for Staves in OB would work just fine for spears as well. The only thing you have to deal with is the reach, which could be comparable to thrusting with a claymore.

As far as the attacks, swings like a claymore and thrusts like a claymore would work just fine. Not only would that be easy to implement, but it's already in. And... balanced. All that would be needed is a tweak to the animations so that the hands are holding the weapon in different places.

From there, you could add a new skill, called polearms or just spears. To add other weapons, halberds and poles could work. The animations and attack styles could all draw from war axes, hammers, and claymores. I just don't see why this is as difficult as some want it to seem.

It's not.
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Lil Miss
 
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Post » Sun Oct 24, 2010 1:40 am

Why are there no spears?: Because Todd wants what he likes and he don't give a rat's ass about the fans. He want's Skyrim to be his way.


if he did what the "fans" wanted on these forums, the game would be a massive failure and be delayed +3 years. Seriously i've heard so many bad ideas here in almost every thread.

Spears are out, but we have more total weapons and armor than Oblivion - you can't complain.
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Philip Lyon
 
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Post » Sat Oct 23, 2010 12:27 pm

Yea, I mean you have to accept that they're out. Whining about that doesn't help much.

What I don't have to accept is their reasoning, if the reasoning really is balance and animation. Somehow I doubt that it is. Neither of those things are that hard to achieve.
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jaideep singh
 
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Post » Sun Oct 24, 2010 12:29 am

Bethesda does not want to "polish" them :laugh:

i c wut u did thur
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Benji
 
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Post » Sat Oct 23, 2010 11:42 pm

Hard to implement. If you've looked, you would see that nearly none of the modern RPGs have spears in them, or they just don't work very well.

No, it's not about the animation at all, that's the easiest part, but the balancing and the whole usage issue. How to make them more than just a dagger with a longer reach without making it useless/overpowered and still have a unique sense of playstyle.

People mention Mount and Blades a lot, but from what I saw on videos I mainly seen a more awkward Oblivion animations with even less sense of impact... Also spears seemed to be mainly used for throwing...

NV had spears, they worked fine.
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maria Dwyer
 
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Post » Sat Oct 23, 2010 1:46 pm

They're taken out because they would need to make a new set of animations. The swing sword and swing axe animations are pretty much the same. The poke with spear is different from the poke with sword.

That's a lame excuse. They do thousands of motion capture animations, what's ten more?
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Cartoon
 
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Post » Sat Oct 23, 2010 11:21 pm

No, it's not about the animation at all, that's the easiest part, but the balancing and the whole usage issue. How to make them more than just a dagger with a longer reach without making it useless/overpowered and still have a unique sense of playstyle.

Spears are inherently balanced. It doesn't have the long range accuracy of a bow and are near useless in close quarter combat against traditional close quarter weapons. It excels at midrange combat and getting around shielded enemies without getting too close.

It comes down to animation difficulty, laziness, and time constraints. <_<
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Kelly Upshall
 
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Post » Sat Oct 23, 2010 10:44 pm

NV had spears, they worked fine.



That's a lame excuse. They do thousands of motion capture animations, what's ten more?


Beauty in words. This is more or less my exact point. The animations aren't all that hard to do, and the balancing issues is a flapjack argument because other games have done it, and even Oblivion had all the pieces that they needed. Those can't be the reason.
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Yonah
 
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Post » Sat Oct 23, 2010 11:54 pm

NV had spears, they worked fine.

No they didn't, you couldn't stab with them, just throw them.

Spears are inherently balanced. It doesn't have the long range accuracy of a bow and are near useless in close quarter combat against traditional close quarter weapons. It excels at midrange combat and getting around shielded enemies without getting too close.

It comes down to animation difficulty, laziness, and time constraints. <_<

Why does everybody bring up the freaking animations? Of course it's relatively easy to do, that's not the problem.

You mentioned how they're near useless close quarters, I agree, that should be in the game, but I don't know how could it be made to work in a first-person game that you can't stab/slash somebody who's really right next to you, not to mention, how would you make it clear with the player when is he in reach.
Just thinking this over made me think of a really uncomfortable system, ironing these out would take way too much time and resources, they could be spending on something else...
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Veronica Martinez
 
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Post » Sat Oct 23, 2010 1:51 pm

Like making every object viewble in 3D in the inventory? lol
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Mel E
 
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Post » Sat Oct 23, 2010 9:13 pm

lol spears in NV were so bad...
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Emily Martell
 
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Post » Sat Oct 23, 2010 4:18 pm

Like making every object viewble in 3D in the inventory? lol

I would say... yes.

Inventory is something everybody's going to use and see, implementing it is on higher priority than a weapon only a relatively smaller niche is going to use.
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Adrian Powers
 
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Post » Sun Oct 24, 2010 3:46 am

No they didn't, you couldn't stab with them, just throw them.

Actually they had both types, thrown and stabbing. The stabbing ones were in the Sierra Madre DLC. Not to mention a spear thats just thrown is still a spear. Why do you always try to argue with me? I always prove you wrong.

Like making every object viewble in 3D in the inventory? lol

Now thats redundant, same thing with the "Google 3D Dwemer GPS map". Wast of dev time IMO.
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Ana Torrecilla Cabeza
 
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Post » Sun Oct 24, 2010 1:55 am

spears are primitive caveman weapons. one of the first weapons created in fact. who doesn't want to play as a caveman sparten character? huh? huh? am i the only one? the imperial legion horseman armor helmet is perfect. all i need is a shield and briast plate....

anyways spears ARE the roots of weaponology. strategic, simple, and easy to use.

hey if you think they are cheap. then don't use them. A.I.s are [censored] as is. it's not like enemies in oblvivion had a particular strategy when using blade/ blunt/ hand to hand weapons. they just threw random combinations that you block anyways.
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Juanita Hernandez
 
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Post » Sat Oct 23, 2010 10:44 pm

In reply to Solid's post about AI, heres a snippet about the one for Oblivion pre its release

First of all, NPC's can do everything the player can do. They can move around, block, use normal and power attacks, mix things up with weapon or hand-to-hand combat, or magic, etc. So can creatures. And it's all customizable using a new feature called a Combat Style.



Combat Styles are collections of settings related to combat behavior. They dictate things like how often a combatant will move around, how often and under what circumstances they'll attack or block, how often they'll use power attacks and how they choose which ones to use, and even things like how likely a combatant is to attack when their opponent is recoiling, staggering, or knocked unconscious. Combat Styles are created in the TES CS and can be assigned to creatures or NPCs either in the editor or via a script function. So, you can swap combat behavior in and out on the fly. It's a very powerful, very flexible system. The Combat AI system makes use of these Combat Styles, along with AI traits set for each NPC or creature such as aggression, confidence, to make most of the decisions during combat.



Other behaviors implemented include intelligent use of buffs (such as fortification potions or spells, summoned creatures, or bound weapons,) restoration, and even counter effect magic. Archers can be set up to maneuver from gap to gap along the top of a castle wall, in order to maintain a visual on their target. And a lot of time has been spent working on path finding and object avoidance. The Combat AI uses our own Radiant AI technology to handle pursuit and fleeing, and even the acquisition of nearby weapons if a combatant is unarmed, among other things. Spectators will clear space for combat they're uninvolved with. NPCs will leave interiors in order to summon guards if a crime is committed, and can flee or pursue through load doors, as well. No more running into a tavern to escape the guards - they'll follow you right in.



And finally, combat need not be lethal. Any combatant - including the player — can yield to their opponent. It's up to the opponent to accept the yield or not, but if they do accept, combat ends. It's a way to get out of those sticky situations where you find yourself in over your head. Just don't try it with a creature or with anyone who really, really hates you! And if an NPC yields to you, you make the call - walk away, or keep fighting.

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Bones47
 
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Post » Sat Oct 23, 2010 9:51 pm

Becuase the Emperors Pointy Stick was way to powerfull of a weapon that Bethesda had to take them all out because any spear can be turned into the Emperors Pointy Stick.
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Heather beauchamp
 
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