No, you still have to get there, and most of the time a straight path is not an option.

And again I ask, how is this any different than just being told where you have to go?

totally optional for PC and console players.

just click on a different quest.

if you don't want to see the marker, don't make it your "active quest"

I enjoy the hell out of Oblivion playing just like this. Sure it would be great if there were a few cool "navigational" quests where somebody says, there is a cave east of a waterfall with a black rock, etc., but even without those kind of quests it's no problem.

I just explore the entire world, gradually I uncover all the locations.

What if you only have one quest?
And is it really a good solution to force us to take multiple quests at the same time, and then click on the other one for every single quest, just so that we could play the first quest without any intrusive elements that tells you where to go like, what I would call it, a 10-year old mindless robot?

That's a TERRIBLE way of calling it optional.
And, btw, compass icons aren't optional. They're there permanently, forever and ever, and that's a huge problem as well for a lot of people.

You could just choose not to make a quest "active," or you could ignore your radar and just wander about. Really it's all in your head. If you want to explore, you will

After experiencing the compass and quest markers in Oblivion, I wondered how it could be changed into an interesting gameplay dynamic.

Wouldn't it be great if you only got the quest compass after you had accumulated enough information on the quest? So you waltz into Shantytown and they pool together their meager coins and hire you to kill the roving bandits killing their trade routes.
How do you know where the bandits are?
Even if they told you "the bandits are in the Cave of Woe", how do you know where that is?

So how do you get this information? Either...
1) You've explored enough already to know exactly what they're talking about
2) You're Speech Crafty enough to convince someone in town to tell you where to go
3) You're wealthy enough to pay for the information, and maybe with your Mercantile skill, you get a better price.

Once you have enough information, the quest compass becomes available for that quest... leading you exactly where you need to go.

Now you've instantly made 2 skills more useful, increased character immersion, and made a spoiler-ish game mechanic much more interesting (and less spoiler-ish),.

I never really thought about how negatively the compass markers and pinpoint map beacons effected my gaming experience until I read this thread: http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1194639-the-problem-i-had-with-fallout-1-and-2/

huh? just don't make it your active quest. you had to click on something to make it your active quest in the first place.

It's not a "workaround." Making something your "active quest" serves only one purpose - to highlight the quest markers. It does absolutely nothing else. If you don't want quest markers, don't click on it.

I suppose there might be some person out there who only acquires one quest at a time, but I've never heard of anybody like that. it seems like in order to do that you would have to avoid talking to any NPCs for hundreds of hours for fear of -- gods forbid -- acquiring a new quest.

Personally, I enjoy having bunch of open quests and I think most people have at least a few dozen open quests at any one time.

Seriously, consider all the other recent Action RPGs out there, it could have been a hell of a lot worse than the way it is implemented in Oblivion.

If you want to explore... just choose a direction and walk in it. Why does quest guiding reduce the ability to explore?!

After experiencing the compass and quest markers in Oblivion, I wondered how it could be changed into an interesting gameplay dynamic.

Wouldn't it be great if you only got the quest compass after you had accumulated enough information on the quest? So you waltz into Shantytown and they pool together their meager coins and hire you to kill the roving bandits killing their trade routes.
How do you know where the bandits are?
Even if they told you "the bandits are in the Cave of Woe", how do you know where that is?

So how do you get this information? Either...
1) You've explored enough already to know exactly what they're talking about
2) You're Speech Crafty enough to convince someone in town to tell you where to go
3) You're wealthy enough to pay for the information, and maybe with your Mercantile skill, you get a better price.

Once you have enough information, the quest compass becomes available for that quest... leading you exactly where you need to go.

Now you've instantly made 2 skills more useful, increased character immersion, and made a spoiler-ish game mechanic much more interesting (and less spoiler-ish),.

I don't want my compass to tell me where the hidden sword of mystery laying in the cave of unknown is.

I certainly would not mind if the quest markers in Oblivion just led to the front door of the cave/dungeon/etc, and then left finding the actual object in the dungeon for the player. That'd make at least a bit more sense (in that, you or someone else could mark the spot you're heading to on your map, but they can't give detail beyond that).

I certainly would not mind if the quest markers in Oblivion just led to the front door of the cave/dungeon/etc, and then left finding the actual object in the dungeon for the player. That'd make at least a bit more sense (in that, you or someone else could mark the spot you're heading to on your map, but they can't give detail beyond that).

You can't deactivate a quest marker in Oblivion. You can only switch it through different quests.
And if you only have one quest, what then? You can't deactivate it.
Would it really be a good solution to force us to take multiple quests at the same time, and then click on the other one for every single quest, just so that we could play the first quest without any intrusive elements that tells you where to go like, what I would call it, a 10-year old mindless robot?

The problem with compass icons is still there and completely and utterly unoptional.

What you propose is a HORRIBLE "solution", if it's even worth calling a solution. A good game designer would come up with tons of better and more sophisticated ways of allowing both sides of the coin to feel comfortable and fine with such an essential part of the gameplay, instead of forcing one side to apply to the other.

I certainly would not mind if the quest markers in Oblivion just led to the front door of the cave/dungeon/etc, and then left finding the actual object in the dungeon for the player. That'd make at least a bit more sense (in that, you or someone else could mark the spot you're heading to on your map, but they can't give detail beyond that).

Just deactivate the quest when you get to the dungeon entrance. Problem solved.




First of all I can't imagine anyone in their right mind would try to go through the Sysyphean effort of attempting to play Oblivion without acquiring any quests at all.

At some point you get out of the prison sewers and you have a quest.

When you acquire new quests you have to make a conscious choice to make them your "active" quest, the sole and unique purpose of which is to turn on the quest marker for that quest. If you don't want to see it, don't activate it. it doesn't become your active quest automatically.

Are you really suggesting that someone is forcing you to activate all these quests and turn on the quest markers, or that someone is going to try to complete a 300-500 hour game with some kind of OCD obsession for never acquiring a new quest before the old one is completed? That seems technically almost impossible because half the quests you collect you get just from talking to some NPC.

I never really thought about how negatively the compass markers and pinpoint map beacons effected my gaming experience until I read this thread: http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1194639-the-problem-i-had-with-fallout-1-and-2/

I ultimately realized that Oblivion, FO3, and FNV are horrible "exploration/sandbox" games due to the inclusion of those features. I get a "tunnel vision" effect when I see those glowing beacons and like a moth to a flame I forgo all else and blindly race toward the next "flagpole" instead of investigating and exploring. Fallout 1 & 2 did a much better job of this by giving lots of clues as to where I should go without grabbing my hand and pulling me along. It takes a bit of acclimation to become used to actually investigating and exploring, but for the people who get over the initial system shock the experience is more rewarding beyond measure.

I guess the short of it is: I will not buy Skyrim until I find mods that remove the compass beacon and somehow turn the map markers into a vague area instead pinpoint precision. Please contribute to this discussion with ideas that add to or elaborate the arguments for or against these game features.

EDIT: The games are touted for their "free to roam/exploration" and yet they force feed you beacons on the compass. The compass markers for locations you have not yet discovered are another such feature that pulls my attention from exploring to "follow the marker". I have no problem with unexplored locations being put on my map when I get near them (not the explored/fast travel markers) like the way the "unexplored location" markers that you would receive after talking to people about places. Sort of like how daedric shrines, some forts, and caves were marked on the map. In FO 3 and NV the "unexplored location" markers would not be placed on the map if you wander near them yet the compass would have a beacon leading you there (pretty sure it was that way in Oblivion too). The map marker would give me a general idea of where I should explore next, but having to follow a compass beacon tends to lead toward following a specific path straight to the destination.

In short, I would much prefer unexplored locations being indicated on my map instead of using the compass beacon system used in Oblivion, FO3, and FNV. Again, the beacons will inflict "tunnel vision" on me at times and keep me from actually exploring.