Not because it's in the game, that would be silly. It's the fact that there's obviously been too much sacrificed in place of it. We all know the whole "Choose our own personality" debate (one of the reasons I'd prefer no voice myself), but this is something very different.

Basically, you're now a mindless drone given a bland personality (eg: You MUST care about your family because your character tells them to get to the bunker and MUST be calm or sarcastic or none cooperative) and have to pick A, B or C without going into insightful, deep conversations anymore. Remember in Fallout 1 where you could talk your way to victory and have those nice, insightful conversations and talk the master into how he's wrong? Remember sleeping with that mobsters daughter in Fallout 2 and having more then 3-4 things to pick from, even if half of them lead to a fight? Or how about talking to that gang with the stockpiles and having multiple ways to do the same quest WITH the addition of other dialog. How about Fallout 3 where those conversations with the brotherhood elder and that wacky AI feel important? Better yet, how about those fun conversations in New Vegas where you can talk the enemy into retreating. And that's just the end part, you can have a lot of fun conversations with the white glove society, guilt people into paying someone when they quit, etc. Sometimes the ultimate plot was just so silly (Super mutants taking over the world) yet I was hooked every moment because of how it all played out.

Remember all that? Yea, I'm not feeling it here. Not in the least. There's voice now and you "react" but that's it. You only ever react and the amount that is said is extremely limited. At least by you. While NPCs always did most of the talking, in past games you at least had a full line or two to state your intentions/pursuit of dialog. And you had anywhere between 4-7 choices of dialog, which in turn could lead to another few options. Now it's 4 at most with single word replies which makes how you react clear as mud. But the worst part? I walk into the mayors office in Diamond city and there's not even a conversation. He just says "Enjoy the city" and that's. it. Where's my side quests/conversation trees with every and any character? Just look at how many NCR majors/The legions centenarians respond and give you things to do, not to mention everything in-between. What really lets this down the most is that this game has the potential to be really, really great, but without this I'm just not feeling it. I've always played games like this to be immersed and pulled into the world. Especially the conversations that go with the multiple ways of doing things. To put it bluntly, I'm not immersed. I was in the past games. So I don't want to hear any silly arguments about "No one plays Bethesda games for this" because guess what, I played past Bethesda games for exactly that. Not just Fallout, but all of them. And up until now it's been a blast. Still is in some ways. But not in this way, my main way. As well as the main way of others I imagine. I'm sure I'm not alone in this.

Everything else about this game is absolutely great, even though higher tech armor/settlement buildings is lacking. Seriously, where's my MK2 army helm with optics that was in NV? But apart from that, superb. Sure, the map might be more "cramped" but I consider that a good thing because now there's more going on. Just because it's an aftermath of a armageddon doesn't mean it has to get that deserted and it keeps things interesting. It feels like a warzone where everyone is fighting to survive. And the wilderness of radiation is really great as well. So overall, great. Sandbox stuff has been aced.

Except for this. The whole reason I got pulled into Fallout in the first place. Along with every other Bethesda game. And without it it's just so... hollow. I feel like a dummy having his strings pulled now, only ever going "Yep. Nope." without knowing how I'm choosing how that plays out. I don't get to decide how to say "This is a good/bad idea because..." which could get you in deep doo doo if you say it the wrong way like in past Fallout games. Basically, I don't feel like I get to choose ultimately or that I'm free anymore when it comes to conversations. It's not the fact that the character has a voice now (I do prefer none voice but I shall remain neutral), it's the fact that the way it's been done has been very simplified and obviously at the cost of not having as much to be said. Not just by me but obviously by the NPCs. It's not a good trade when you sacrifice content that has been in past games. It worked in Mass Effect because it worked from the start. This is a series with "More to be said", not just "Only these things to choose from". The solution is to either add more dialog and conversation trees (more to be said basically) or, if that's too much for the voice actors, go back to none spoken dialog. The best compromise I can think of is both, where major conversation paths have spoken and the rest none spoken. But this just isn't working. It's like a telltale game where I just mostly watch and grab popcorn. Not enough control.

And for those people that don't like lots of dialog, the solution is simple. Keep the shortened dialog for them as an option in the menu. Much like how Mass Effects 3's action/storytelling options are there at the start. I'm almost hoping that Fallout 4 was a "test" for the next one, but even then I think I'd have to say that this game should have been given the attention it deserves in this area. Which it has not. I'm sure most will disagree right now because it's new and hyped, but given time I think it will be made clear. It's only clear to me because, well, I pretty much have no life and spent two days on it already. Having no life does that I suppose. And with that off I go to try and get one.

"My son!? Where is my son!"
"Tell me where my son is!"
Sums up the first half of the main quest.

But yeah, I agree with you. Varied dialogue and quantity has been sacrificed for the voiced PC which is a shame.

I'm with you 100%. Also, if this game has a soul, I haven't found it yet.

I think the dialogue wheel has also ruined Fallout 4, from YouTube videos I watched I'm not liking it at all. Only 4 choices and not many different options at all. It's stupid.

Bethesda Game Studios needs to go back to their old dialogue system.

Agree, rather have meaningful and well developed dialogues then full voiceover. Not when it's at the expense of the former.

In un-voiced games I usually "imagine" the way conversation goes from my side, its more or less like reading a book, you make up the mood and tone of the dialogue in your own head, that gives room to many types of interpretation even when repeating the same scene/talk.

Having the main character voiced removes the multifaceted personality that we attribute to him/her. IMO was a bad move from Bethesda.

NPCs are ok to have voice sets because NPCs need to be special and remarkable in their own way ("Magic is impressive, but now Minsc shall lead. SWORDS FOR EVERYONE!")

I agree adding a voice was a mistake I thought it would be before seeing the game in action I feel the same way after seeing it in action. The voice combined with the more restricted background truly make you feel like you're playing someone else's character and not your own.

I really hope they axe it in future games or at least make it optional, as I know there are quite a few people who actually like it (Personally I can't see why but to each their own).

Actually a good point by OP. I agree

This was the main concern from the first day it was suspected they would use a voiced PC. (And it was scoffed at. )

Albeit, I don't mind more fully fleshed out characters versus blank slates.

I'm stunned, though, how many people want to play the guy who doesn't care about an infant being stolen.

Yup, I agree, this is Bethesda's biggest flaw in this game in my opinion. The dialogue is no longer deep or interesting in the least.

To be fair Skyrim didn't have great dialog options and I don't remember FO3 being all that great either. So this doesn't bother me so much. Also we was fored to care about James in FO3.

D'OH. I just noticed the connection now. Boy did that go over my head. Why didn't I see that right away? I guess being so excited to play Fallout 4, I didn't see it.

By that I mean in Fallout 3, it was looking for Daddy, now in Fallout 4, it's looking for the son. Curious what will be looking for in Fallout 5?

I really dont think is the voice the problem is the 4 options only, i wish the option wheel work more like DA or Mass Effect.

I really dont care the protagonist speak since is a nice addition i like all the little stuff he said, like when u use drugs and [censored] like that. But is been bothering me alot the little i can ask about stuff. So yeah for me at the moment the weakest point on the game is Dialogue wheel.

Well look at it this way. You are thrust into the game with a wife and child already there. You made no part in the decision to have said wife and child. Why should you care what happens to them? It was much the same with FO3 except you don't ever have the option of choosing your biological father so at least some allowances can be made there. And even then you can say [censored] it, don't care about this guy.

As for the voiced dialogue yea it really makes the whole thing boring when it's always yes sir, no sir, three bags full sir. Having a mere 4 choices in a wheel is annoying, sure you occasionally get the chance for bribery or intimidation but for the most part its yes, no, sarcasm, further questions. At least when the dialogue is mostly written they can make a whole host of other choices available. You can feel like you are actually making a conversation instead of just rote responses. You can also see exactly what the hell is about to come out of your characters mouth. If i have to guess what my guy's going to say, and then he says something completely different, it's like what the hell. completely ruins the immersion. They can't include nearly enough information in the dinky little wheel. I've chosen some responses because they seem like something my guy might say but then he takes it in the complete opposite direction. At this point I just say screw it, there's no real point in the dialogue anyway besides saying yes or no what do I care what he says, and that makes for a very [censored] main character, it makes you feel like you have no real role in the personality of your character you basically have the choice of agreeing/disagreeing or being a sarcastic [censored], and it even TELLS you that a choice is specifically sarcastic, you can't even just choose a line and have the NPCs react like ok hes being sarcastic. no you just have to choose to be sarcastic even if you couldn't tell what sarcasm was even if it bit you in the ass. Don't even get me started on the destruction of skills and the damned perk chart. I can practice picking a lock all I want but I can't be a master of it until I hit a certain level? That's like going up to two workers and telling one that while worker A has been here for 15 years and has practiced every day and worker B has only been there 2 days and hasn't even seen a lock before that worker B is master rank and worker A is still an apprentice because he is only 30 years old instead of worker B's 45.

i like the voices.

id rather thave full voice than [censored] loads of text to read.

half of which i will usually glance over for pertinent info and discard the rest.

It isn't just about "if voice is there or not". It's about "What isn't there in terms of what is said anymore". If you don't like walls of text, fine, glance over it and let there be a voice (Weak argument btw since only the player had no voice in 3 and NV, and it certainty wasn't "walls").

But if there's going to be a voice it better not sacrifice the AMOUNT of content the game should have. Which has unfortunately happened. You wouldn't notice because you don't read it. The rest of us notice because we do. And regardless of what's in a games/series, it should always have the same content (or more) in the next one, in the same areas (speech. Combat. Etc). My reaction would be the same if it had been combat that had been sacrificed. Doesn't make or break the game for me, but I imagine it would for others.

Not a fair comparison. 3 was a whole different game from 2 because it moved from top down to first/3rd person and was a fresh start after so long yet still attempting to keep the heart and soul of the game. Which it managed to do, even if it was weak overall when compared to NV. NV on the other hand is a definite step up. NV progressed from 3. 4 on the other hand is a step back because things that have been in the past (more recent) games are not here now. No matter which way you slice it, the dialog has gotten weaker. It's the same game engine, same lore and so on, so there's just no excuse.

Apart from all that, the fixed dialog also FORCES you (the player character) to react "a certain way". Which is "good", or at best neutral (even then you MUST care about your family at the start due to fixed player spoken lines). And there's no telling HOW you're going to react until you pick one of the options because they're so vague WHAT am I being sarcastic about?. Will it be done in a joking manner or in an [censored] way? Even in 3 and more so in NV we got a few lines to determine that. In 4 there's just no way of telling.

I'm about 35 hours of game play in, using female protagonist.

I had a variety of reasons for chosing to play a female, but one on the list for THIS game was for the voice actress's tone and range of inflections.

That is comparison to the male actor voice, who I found in stream and you tube vids voice so dull and monotone. I took immediatly a greater dislike of that voice.

That said, I agree with most of what the OP has stated.

I chose the lesser of two evils, and we all know what that sort of choice leads to.

I'd prefer to imagine my characters emotional response.

Despite the protagonist voice, I still manage to re-color and re-interpret her utterances. I like a lot more color.

The NPC voicing is fine. I'd rather they had spent more time and money flushing that out if one considers voice acting budget a entire thing seperate

from fixing base engine issues... cough , cough.

i always think it looks mildly creepy when advlts say daddy, i don't recall your father ever being called "daddy" by the pc.

Anyways the voice acting is pretty good, there is enough changes in responses to be unique. Fallout 3 rarely had 4 or more reactions iirc, and the idea that if bethesda just left all the responses as text they would have included more dialogue options is laughable. If anything having someone read the lines probably made them more careful not to write derpish lines.

I am honestly anticipating a mod that mutes the protagonists voice

I think this is the bigger issue. The design of the dialogue wheel confines our foresight of our characters personality. The truth is, our character actually says more than "sarcastic" "question" "I'm looking for my son." But in order to fit within that dialogue wheel it's literally been boiled down to a couple of words.

(To me) there is nothing wrong with the voiced character -- only the clarity we have on choosing a voice.

EDIT: While still pertaining to the dialogue system we do have an elaborate, ongoing discussion ofhttp://www.gamesas.com/topic/1552666-is-fallout-4s-dialogue-system-an-improvement-over-fo3nv/ Maybe we can voice our opinions there? Instead of running a duplicate thread parallel to that one?

EDIT2: http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1550676-dialogue-system-is-dreadful-and-is-a-step-backwards/

Why are you here?

Looking for someone

Why are you here really?

Why do you care?

Why are you here c'mon?

I lost family

Why are you here, what's their name?

Why do you effing care?

Give me the name!

Shaun!

Oh, let me join you, I now care too.

That's the whole convo, Brilliant Beth writing.

Disagree with this thread.

Voice has improved Fallout in my opinion.

Also might as well get used to it as I'm sure TESVI will have a voiced protagonist.

c.60 hours in I'm really enjoying the story.

I think that there is too much that get's sacrificed in a lot of games so that there can be masses of real talking.

The budget for which could instead have gone into making the games more goodererer. IMHO

i agree with you buddy, in fact i just posted a thread asking what the likelihood of a patch is. i actually will not even buy and play this game unless they do patch dialog system. the voice is bad enough, but the way they implemented it makes it practically broken. so much for passing control onto the player, so much for telling your own story. dialog is now just a guessing game of chance.

are you a fan of mass effect, dragon age and other such ilk though? i'm guessing you are.