The Byzantines never thought of themselves as anything other than the Roman Empire, and the Empire's Imperial administration and court was unbroken in the east. So why wouldn't the Eastern Roman Empire, not be the continuation of the Empire? Just because it lost Roma? The Western Empire was a husk of former Rome anyway by the time it fell, being led from the capital of Ravenna, not Rome.

But regardless, this is is off topic. PM me if you'd like to discuss this further.

Yea, I been thinking about that one. I have to wonder if the 2 and 3 can even share the same world since "Different company". So any logic from 2 may well be invalid because of that. Kinda like how there's comics compared to films. There's certainty a fair few in 3. But damn is it fun when they fly in troops.

And this is proven when? Even if a president goes "We're the only ones around" it could be in the context of "On this base" or "In this part of the country with the NCR". And Eden may well be left out of the loop with the faction on the whole and a puppet that is used. And to be honest, he does strike me as the type to be used in such a way. Give someone power. Let them enjoy what they have while masking the rest of it. Games have done such things before.

Also, keep in mind that games can ditch logic in favor of fun. Sometimes things get added in for the sake of it. Deathclaws are all around for example. Do they have an explanation for being all over? Do they even need one? I see no Geckos. I wanted geckos. deathclaws here and geckos not? Where's da logic?

You're free to speak for yourself and say "I personally think they should have been gone", others can and will disagree with you. Just like others can and will disagree with me. There's no should about it one way or the other. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you was speaking only for yourself and those that have a personal preference against them.

Pretty sure you got recruited in 3. And while the Enclave detest outsides, they can and will use them. Keeps their more pure members safe. Which, for all we know, may be sipping G&Ts on a none radiated beach. Not every pure human is bound to be a soldier. And again, who knows if they have cloning technology or not. I can't recall if Fallout 4 has done clones yet. I do however know other games have used this tactic. Both on small numbers and large. And even the Gen 3 synths are grown in tanks, so it's not that large of a gap between the two. Enclave have different technology to the Institute of course, but we're still talking "high tech" and it's not impossible for similar tech to be made, despite not knowing of each others presence. Institute may well be remnants of the Enclave that used to believe in the what the Enclave did and now no longer do, since they share VERY similar beliefs in terms of "outsiders". If that's the case we pretty much just finished them in 4.

You know, that last explanation probably makes the most sense. Lose bases on surface. Hide away underground. change beliefs over time. DLC with that confirmed is a nice compromise. And Shaun could be teleported out the moment the place blew to confirm it. While still clinging onto life and then dying before your eyes without hating each other. Wouldn't even matter if the base got blown up or not. 'Cause if it was it wouldn't be Enclave anymore anyway.

I take a legalistic view of it.

But yes, if the Enclave WERE to come back then what would be their "thing"? What would make them interesting. What would separate them from the Brotherhood of Steel as it is now or make them anything more than the pathetic has-beens they were in Fallout 2 but at least were original about?

That would make perfect sense if not for the fact John Henry Eden says the Vertibirds (which are nuclear powered and don't need refueling) traveled from Navarro to Raven Rock, explaining how they survived.

Kind of like Lyons being a splinter good guy faction of the BoS, the survival of the Enclave is explained in the game.

If they just wanted to reboot the franchise, they could have done so without all of the tie-ins which make it explicitly clear it's the same world.

The Enclave coming back would be a bad decision. However, seeing a group of people who go around in their gear and acting under a different name and ideology would be interesting and fun to see. We know that there are several outposts throughout the wastes, but what about abandoned armories and bunkers like we saw in New Vegas? These salvagers would have no clue who the Enclave was, nor would they care. To them, they found a jackpot of Pristine Power Armor and weapons and are going to use it for whatever their reasons might be.

Funny you mention the President:

And the context that he is talking about is the entire world, not just the local region, because the Enclave's virus will kill everyone on Earth by their own admission. And yes "Enclave" refers to the Oil Rig, not the organisation (Richardson never once uses the word Enclave to refer to their organisation).

{It's not pretty. You should leave as soon as possible. But I'd rather have the weight of a thousand on my conscience than several hundred-thousand. Our time is through here. We had our chance.}

-Dr. Curling, when referring to releasing the toxin on the Oil Rig as opposed to the mainland. Which clearly indicates the Enclave on the Oil Rig is not much more than a thousand.

And then as Enclave said, Richardson only mentions inoculating Navarro and the Oil Rig. No other bases.

If I were to bring back the Enclave, I'd do it with Arcade Gannon.

Because nothing would amuse me more than a homosixual Jewish man running around with Nazi toys blasting people like Caesar.

He just needs a big burly Russian man and a hot Romani woman to his sidekicks.

Maybe throw in a British mechanic.

Arcade's a self-hating cuck though, he hates the Enclave and everything it stood for and probably wouldn't want to "bring it back" (not that you can anyway because it would just be something called "The Enclave" but have no actual connexion to the organisation).

Even if he wouldn't be immediately detained by the NCR I don't think he wants anything else to do with it.

The Super Enclave.

Aaahhh...

Arcade Gannon was raised by his squadron of Old Timers to think nothing of the best of the Enclave despite later discovering they had some serious issues. The fact he can wear his dad's power armor and start fighting for it and self-identifies as a member of the Enclave despite the fact he was only a small child when Navarro was destroyed goes to say he has a lot of conflicted feelings regarding the Enclave.

Given the Courier can encourage him either way and NCR is likely to ruin his career, it's very possible he might decide to start digging up Enclave technology and try to rebuild the faction as a positive force for good.

Which would be an interesting contrast to the Brotherhood of Steel.

If Cannibal Johnson joined and the others, they'd have a direct connection to the Enclave.

I don't think that they raised him to like it. Most people don't even know about the Enclave to spread stories, especially since they kept to the fringes after leaving Navarro.

He doesn't fight for the Enclave, he fights for the people of the Mojave. He doesn't even stay with the Remnants after battle. He just talks about how "there was no glory in the Enclave" and as a "fascist, paramilitary organisation".

He may like some of the people in the Enclave but he makes his feelings on the actual entity itself pretty clear IMO. Like he knows Moreno has done terrible things, gunned down innocent people but can't bring himself to really hate him or Daisy Whitman inserting Enclave death squads into the wasteland. That's his conflict I think.

In place of the actual Enclave-Enclave or Arcade Ganon the Self-Hating Enclaver, I think a good alternative would be a mercenary army you could encounter in Fallout 5 (Chicago, New York, or wherever) lead by Colonel Autumn (who would "canonically" survive in this). It would be composed of Wastelanders recruited by Colonel Autumn, who wasn't as racist as Eden anyway and make use of Enclave Power Armor and equipment.

They could call themselves the New Enclave.

Or the Third Enclave if you want them to be bad guys.

What do you think?

You could also give it another name and just keep the equipment.

Why would he even bother?

He'd just turn all the technology over to the Followers. That's the faction he "identifies" with anyway.

-No actually I was and am speaking for the established lore and canon of the Fallout series. Additionally, it was not only established lore back in Fallout 1 and 2, but also confirmed in Fallout 3 and New Vegas.

-You were not recruited into the Enclave. You were basically forced to join the Brotherhood of Steel. You could be used by President Eden and deliver a virus that would kill all mutated life within the area, but you were not recruited as a member, nor would the Enclave allow such a thing. Furthermore, Bethesda all but invalidates the choice to be used by the Enclave with Broken Steel anyway.

The other stuff was already addressed prior to my posting this so I won't even bother.

I've played Fallout 3 like 30 times and that's never happened.

Not saying I don't believe you but I've been in a lot of "Autumn survives" threads.

The Followers are way too pacifist for Arcade Gannon's tastes.

Hence why he is torn about becoming a Power-Armored Warrior of Doom or not.

Arcade going out into the Wastelands to bring order to it and end the threat of Caesar-types could very well be his true calling if you want to write it that way.

Seriously, though, there's immense closure with the Enclave.

The Lone Wanderer killed every single member himself.

Every.last.one.

"I can't believe you, of all people, would show mercy on him. The real kicker is that the boys outside will probably cut him down as soon as he opens the door. Now let's get this place locked down."

Doesn't sound good for ol' Autumn.

Ah, well it's not CONFIRMED.

Which is why his survival isn't impossible.

IF you want to bring back the Enclave then he's a good candidate for it.

I tend to agree with others, that the enclave... as it was ... should stay dead.

But there is an opportunity here in Fo4, with the settlement system... How about...

Letting the PC create her or his own faction, which you can then RP to be enclave'ish (where you can set it's relationship to other factions)?

Or exactly a DLC storyline about recreating the "enclaves" ideals and so on...

Impetus being either just the players feeling like being evil sob's .... Or some sort out of outside invasion. Canada/GB invading? Would be a nice little irony...

It could easily happen under any Enclave remnant. But it's not the Enclave is it? It's just an ex-Enclave guy basing something on what he knows.

Even so, only of those guys would actually be Enclave, the rest in your scenario would not. Like I am doing literally the same thing as what you've said in Boston right now but they're not the Enclave, I'm just an ex-Enclave guy.

Well short of finding of body, no. But it makes sense. Why would the Brotherhood personnel just let him walk away? Sarah surely isn't going to order them to stand down.

Nope, but it's pretty chaotic and people fleeing is very likely.

Colonel Autumn was the leader of the Enclave when he escaped and anything he says is the Enclave is the Enclave.

Besides, all the other Enclave was destroyed.

There's a Chicago group but given dike Richardson and John Henry Eden's death, then they would just be an Enclave Remnant.

Continuity of government would pass to Autumn.

Presumably it would and if that were the case then what he did would be the Enclave as you say since he would be the legal successor to the Office of the President (which apparently has infinite powers by Eden's time).

But I don't think that Colonel Autumn is alive hence why I said "any Enclave Remnant". Without that legal link the Enclave as a faction doesn't exist, and since it hinges on one person (whom is most likely dead) that's what I mean.

EDIT: Actually you say all this but it's possible for Eden to still be alive during the Purifier events and Autumn is not at Adams Air Force Base. Therefore dereliction of duty. The Enclave at this time is lead by "Enclave High Command", an organisation that sounds like it was just made up because there was nobody to be the next President.