Why we want realism, and magic/dragons too : V - Skyrim

» Tue Dec 13, 2011 7:12 pm

Yes, those who throw the ?You can't possibly have realism in TES? are takng the easy way out of an issue they otherwise can't seem to cope with.
Plausibility is a better word and will force those same people to come up with a better explanation for why they don't want this or that feature implemented in TES.

Yeah, there is a balance. Like, you wouldn't want to have to press two keys to walk forward, one for your left leg and one for your right. But at the same time, you still want it to feel realistic when you are walking.

Although, a mod that did add that in would be interesting to say the least. You could probably even implement a feature so that you can break peoples legs so that they can't move! Ahhh, that sounds fun

*BUT*

In the end, and for the most part, it all boils down to personal preference.You either would *like* or wouldn'tTES to feature hardcoe mode, for example.

What I don't understand, is why they didn't add in the option for a hardcoe-like mode. They did in fallout, and it was alright, not perfect, but it was something. And if you didn't want to play on hardcoe, you weren't forced to.

Lock-bashing would be a nice feature - along with the return of the (unlock) spell. But high level locks wouldn't be bash-able and even higher wouldn't be pick-able. The overall arching principle should be that any task can be completed through any of the major playstyles.

agreed.

But not with lockpicking, its not like you need to be a thief to be able to lockpick,

Maybe thief was the wrong descriptive word, but regardless, you are forced to use the lockpicking skill with no other alternative, unless you steal a key, which not all containers and doors have a key for. And stealing a key doesn't exactly help your argument that you don't have to be a thief to open locks.

its not difficult to do and having a spell or a bash lock option is unnecessary IMO.

This might come as a surprise to you, but some of us actually enjoy having flexible options, and some of us enjoy roleplaying.

You don't need any other skills to lockpick,

Uhh, yeah, but only because there is only one way to open locks! This is circular logic.

the game freezes time for you so you don't need to sneak. The problem with lockpicking is the useless perks.

Well, although it does irritate me a little that time freezes, you do still need to be sneaking before you start lockpicking (if there are guards/NPCs nearby), unless you want to get caught.

And I agree, the perks are useless.

Also, the minigame allows you to unlock any kind of lock, even if you have the lowest skill value in lockpicking. In fallout, you couldn't just open any lock you wanted to. You had to get to level 25 to start opening easy locks (or something like that) and 50 for medium locks, etc, etc, and then they just completely took steps backwards in development in Skyrim.

And as long as you have enough lockpicks (which not only are cheap and easy to find, but they are WEIGHTLESS), you can sit there for as long as you need and pick the lock until you get it open.

The system seems half-assed and broken. It needs major work. Anyone who says otherwise...well, I don't know what's wrong with them.

» Tue Dec 13, 2011 3:55 pm

Making the mundane stuff more realistic can make the game world more convincing, which in turn makes the fantasy elements more believable. I think developers put a good level of realism into this game, in terms of doing what would be popular among the majority of players (realistic and varied foods scattered about, beds and inns available, interesting weather, a good fast travel alternative, etc.), but I personally look forward to modding in realism elements to make things come to life that much more. For a first playthrough though, I kind of like not having to deal with things like hunger/thirst/sleep, I'm busy enough just getting to know the basics of the game. Once I'm familiar with though I definitely like to add in more layers of complexity, it can really extend the shelf life of a game.

» Tue Dec 13, 2011 6:30 pm

Open lock for mages is, if you think about it, an unfair alternative to lockpicking.

Here's why:

As a thief, lockpicking represents its own skill, with it's own perks.

As a mage, open lock represents one of many spells in a given magic school.

As a thief, every time I use lockpick, I am contributing towards my level up MORE than if I were a mage casting a low level spell to unlock something.

So if you look into it, it's possible that open lock was removed because it represents a way to get around a non-combat related leveling tree. For example, if I level lockpick, all I get is the ability to unlock things easier. If I spec in alteration, I get the ability to open locks better PLUS the ability to shield myself and use other beneficial spells.

You simply cannot have an entire skill tree devoted to one action, and then allow another skill tree to subvert that with a lower cost.

You're forgetting the simple fact that there has always been tiered spells for opening locks. You couldn't open a master lock until you reached, like, level 75 in alteration or something. There is your balance right there! You'd have to do a good bit of leveling your main level before you can start getting higher level treasure.

With lockpicking, you can open a master lock at level 15.

And with lockbashing (which they have yet to implement) there can be all sorts of penalties, such as damaging or destroying items (oh wait, you can't damage weapons and armour anymore because that idea was scrapped instead of improved upon as well...go figure), or simply rendering certain containters damaged to the point where you cannot even open them anymore (this would be applied more-so to the dwemer chests, considering that they are made out of metal and not wood).

Thieves have always preferred to avoid combat and sneak in the shadows, while mages and warriors focused more on defense and offense in the face of danger. So it makes sense that lockpicking should be a non-combat skill, while opening locks and bashing locks should be tied into more combat related skills.

» Tue Dec 13, 2011 10:21 pm

I hope you see this bump, Redscream. I'm still waiting for you to reply to my counter-argument I just made regarding opening locks.