Why would you dual wield daggers? : V - Skyrim

» Thu May 10, 2012 9:11 am

i think the lower fatigue of the swing is a great point. that = a high base damn LONGER resulting in high dps in the long run for the less fatigue consuming daggers over the swords/axes.hammer/whatever..

» Thu May 10, 2012 3:10 am

i really hope you are wrong about daggers being worthless, they are my melee weapon of choice. lets hope bethesda had the forethought to add something that would even out the damage

dont daggers do 15X damage when stealthed as opposed to 2X with swords? Also it says in the leaked Xbox manual that differnt weapons will effect stealth, 2H will make the most noise, 1H will make moderate noise and daggers wont make much at all. so if your sneaking a lot daggers will deff be useful

» Thu May 10, 2012 2:38 pm

dont daggers do 15X damage when stealthed as opposed to 2X with swords? Also it says in the leaked Xbox manual that differnt weapons will effect stealth, 2H will make the most noise, 1H will make moderate noise and daggers wont make much at all. so if your sneaking a lot daggers will deff be useful

the 15x dagger stealth damage only applies with a perk in the sneak skill tree.

» Thu May 10, 2012 5:13 am

It could be a balance thing, or there are other things not yet revealed to us. Plus, daggers would be easy to conceal like in New Vegas you can have holdout weapons, so that may apply.

» Thu May 10, 2012 4:07 am

the 15x dagger stealth damage only applies with a perk in the sneak skill tree.

Yeah I know but it's still probally worth it. If folks are thinking of dual wielding daggers and face to face fighting someone then no, I doubt that would work out too well with the difficulty slider not all the way to the left but as far as stealth killing, yeah daggers are most deff the way to go IMO

» Thu May 10, 2012 9:18 am

the 15x dagger stealth damage only applies with a perk in the sneak skill tree.

Right, and it's 10x otherwise. Same goes for the longsword which normally 2x and becomes 6x with a perk.

» Thu May 10, 2012 3:39 am

As your own math suggests it really seems to depend on the base weapon damage. But also keep in mind that daggers scale waaaaaaaaaaay better than other weapons for sneak attacks.

Say you have a longsword at 20 damage: 20x2x6 =240
Dagger at 20 = 20x15=300
Dagger at 19 = 285
Dagger at 18 = 270
Dagger at 17 = 255
Dagger at 16 = 240

So yes at low base damage levels your stealth attacks may be better with a non dagger. But later on chances are the daggers will scale much better.

» Thu May 10, 2012 10:26 am

Daggers are for stealth characters who want to burst someone down in one hit.

Your math on daggers seems to be only calculating the damage for having one dagger, not two. 6x15x2= 180 stealth hit base.

Well, if you can use both in a single SNEAK ATTACK, yes. My assumption for the moment is no, because we've never seen it, heard nothing of it, and most things work at least similar to that in previous TES games.

At the same time, wouldnt it be the same deal for swords as well? Were talking 200+ damage at this point. However, the damage would scale up much quicker as the damage went higher.

» Thu May 10, 2012 9:16 am

DPS, Cool factor,Knife fighter and for fun

» Thu May 10, 2012 2:46 am

i own a sword in real life, a proper heavy fighting sword, not a light metal are advanced smithing technique sword like the Japanese or Calvary swords, a heavy one and it is a [censored] to swing realistically its a hand and a half sword or close too and if i was wielding one or two of them against a guy with two daggers id know i'm screwed because i wouldn't be able to back-peddle or defend enough to stop it, daggers are king of close quarters fighting because it takes room to swing a sword which people don't realize, but this is not real life obviously so id say when it comes down to it they will be pretty even

» Thu May 10, 2012 5:35 pm

DPS, Cool factor,Knife fighter and for fun

RIGHT! right... How could i forget to calculate in awesome into my equations... how silly of me :facepalm:

+6*15=

At the end of the day, its a game, and if your happy doing what you do, awesome. I'll at least mess with it, but in the end i always gravitate to whatever i find to be the most effective play style within my preferred playing style.

I was just curious what the general community here thought about it. I dont disagree with anything people have said, though i would like a source for that dagger +damage perk...

» Thu May 10, 2012 8:27 am

Still fatigue is an exponent that you cant really calculate but is a massive game changer on these numbers that seriously favors the dagger.

» Thu May 10, 2012 5:47 pm

Still fatigue is an exponent that you cant really calculate but is a massive game changer on these numbers that seriously favors the dagger.

True true. Maybe, i duno. I like how people keep bringing this up. If i had any numbers i'd use them, but i never even bothered in oblivion. Besides, any stealth user should have a massive fatigue bar, just by nature. Least thats how it usually was. How much, and if thats enough... Well again this is another factor we'll have to see how it plays.

» Thu May 10, 2012 12:38 pm

With duel daggers can you stealth kill two bandits almost simultaneously? Sure it would take some skill, but I always hated it when in Oblivion I couldn't sneak arrows fast enough to get two stealth bonuses. Maybe you can this time around but it will be with duel daggers.

» Thu May 10, 2012 3:02 pm

One thing to consider is we don;t know how two damage multiplies stack. Is x2 and x6 =x12? Or is t more like D&D where that would end up a x7. And as pointed out up thread at higher base damage the dagger shines. But yes even if it does a bit more damage from the sneak attack its damage will plummet when not attacking from stealth so it might overall still be less viable than 2 swords.

» Thu May 10, 2012 11:53 am

Alright, lets ignore the fact that i hate what they've done with dual wielding. Despite the fact i'm still going to try it, i think- ... not important right now. Anyway:
...

Is there something i'm missing here, or is this pretty much spot on?

I agree so far, given what we know. Not really seeing any reason yet to bring a knife to a gunfight. Unless my char was in an actual stealthy assassin's situation, it'd just be the regular road bandit with a sword.

That aside, people have already mentioned stamina and weapon weight and awesomeness-factor (??). Not sure how weaponweight affects stealth yet. Then why equip anything at all? Just walk up barehanded, then equip a Favorite, and wham. Wait and see, i guess.

» Thu May 10, 2012 2:09 pm

I agree so far, given what we know. Not really seeing any reason yet to bring a knife to a gunfight. Unless my char was in an actual stealthy assassin's situation, it'd just be the regular road bandit with a sword.

That aside, people have already mentioned stamina and weapon weight and awesomeness-factor (??). Not sure how weaponweight affects stealth yet. Then why equip anything at all? Just walk up barehanded, then equip a Favorite, and wham. Wait and see, i guess.

Weapons not only effect how fast you move but also how much noise you make while stealthed, I'm going to use dagger personally cause getting spotted before doing any sneak damage just isnt worth it to me if playing a stealthy ninja. I dont know how quick swapping will work, probally just like you siad sneak up and then draw your blade. would be cool if drawing your blade made noise that alerted things directly around you

» Thu May 10, 2012 10:11 am

Dual wield is done wrong in games (and in movies, too). Rarely both weapons are used for offense, one is always for parrying. They are used to deal damage only in the event that the adversary leaves an opening AND the attacker has not to dramatically alter its stance (which could leave him open as well).

If the computations of the OP are correct, then daggers will be useless except if there's some insanely powerful dagger (ie daedric or unique) to use for assassinations.

» Thu May 10, 2012 10:53 am

I wouldn't dual wield EVER, unless someone modded blocking, I dislike getting hit and not being able to parry.

» Thu May 10, 2012 2:09 am

I would dual weild daggers only in interiors where I sneak (dungeon, house, ect). In plain field against a dragon or more powrful enemies I'll prefer short or longswords.

» Thu May 10, 2012 2:05 pm

Weapons not only effect how fast you move but also how much noise you make while stealthed, I'm going to use dagger personally cause getting spotted before doing any sneak damage just isnt worth it to me if playing a stealthy ninja.

ah, i see. Pleasantly surprised if daggers added a bonus to Stealth, even compared to bareknuckles.

Dual wield is done wrong in games (and in movies, too). Rarely both weapons are used for offense, one is always for parrying. They are used to deal damage only in the event that the adversary leaves an opening AND the attacker has not to dramatically alter its stance (which could leave him open as well).

I blame Flynn and his swashbucklers
but it's still soooo cool

» Thu May 10, 2012 12:42 pm

Try being less cynical next time.

Questioning or pointing out obvious flaws is absolutely NOT a bad thing. If you wanna ignore facts and blissfully frolic in your miasma of stupid down Marry Poppin Lane, be my guest. But dont fault others for not being as pointlessly positive as you.

» Thu May 10, 2012 3:36 am

when duel wielding, do diffirent weapons do diffirent typues of damage?, and if so does it not make sence to mix it up a bit , like an axe + a dagger

» Thu May 10, 2012 4:40 am

Another thing to keep in mind is that daggers attack speed is much faster than other weapons.

» Thu May 10, 2012 5:13 pm

strike speed wasnt taken into account