Why would you make the same mistake?

Post » Thu Dec 24, 2009 10:57 am

It's not quite that simple given the large number of variations the New Vegas ending can have depending on your actions up to the end of the main quest. If they just let those who wanted to keep playing do so without changing the gameworld to reflect that players actions, I'm pretty sure there would be a lot of the people wanting continued gameplay after the main quest on the forums raging because the post ending gameplay does not reflect their choices in the game.
I'm reasonably sure that Obsidian decided against post ending gameplay for several reasons one of which I think is that with the timescale they had to work with they knew they could not take into account the characters actions throughout the game and thus couldn't create a 'seamless' post ending gameworld. Also the game would have to keep track of the various ending segments you can possibly get, of which there are a total of 27 different segments you can unlock, although one of them is negated by one of the others, so there are a total of 26 ending segments you can see at the end of the game. On top of this each of those 27 segments has anywhere between 4 and 13 variations to them. Trying to keep track of all that would increase the games programming complexity by at least an order of magnitude and on top of that the more complex a program is the greater the chance of more bugs and glitches.



@WestoftheRockies. The Vanilla version of Fallout 3 had a definate ending so your example is incorrect citing it as a free roam style game. Mass Effect 2 while it may let you continue playing after the end of the game, it's post ending gameplay leaves a LOT to be desired.

I do agree with you. Im not that bothered about the game ending, it gives you plenty warning this time which is good.
I was just thinking maybe they could let you still explore the mojave searching for side quests without any of the changes after the end. Sounds pretty silly to me but maybe it would stop some of the people complaining. Having the choice there wouldn't do any harm?
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Jessica Lloyd
 
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Post » Thu Dec 24, 2009 3:34 am

Should have made other saves. I just don't get why having done one quest is so important to some people. Just save before the fight. Do it to see what ending you got for the quests done so far, then reload. Do the rest of the side quests then beat it again to see more of the ending, which you can't do if you play after the ending.

@westoftherockies What ending did you get in stalker that let you play after the ending? The one I got,
Spoiler
the roof caved in on my guy after he wished for money thinking the chinks falling were coins. Which resulted in his death
then promptly sent me so the credits and to the title screen.
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Nancy RIP
 
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Post » Thu Dec 24, 2009 11:09 am

I was just thinking maybe they could let you still explore the mojave searching for side quests without any of the changes after the end. Sounds pretty silly to me but maybe it would stop some of the people complaining. Having the choice there wouldn't do any harm?


I agree with this. A freeplay mode (like the one in Fallout 2) would've gone some way to preventing the constant recurrence of these sorts of threads.

Still, I suppose then there'd be a bunch of threads complaining that the post-endgame freeplay Mojave doesn't reflect the ending slides. You probably can't win.

I'll be amazed if FO4 makes the same mistake though.
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Nick Jase Mason
 
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Post » Thu Dec 24, 2009 2:22 pm

I am continually amazed that it is viewed as a mistake. It is (and always has been), a major ~even lauded, aspect of the entire series.
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!beef
 
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Post » Thu Dec 24, 2009 2:21 am

I am continually amazed that it is viewed as a mistake. It is (and always has been), a major ~even lauded, aspect of the entire series.


Eh, if nothing else it's a testament to how much people enjoy the game, that they want to keep playing even when the story's been concluded.
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Anna Beattie
 
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Post » Thu Dec 24, 2009 5:47 am

I am continually amazed that it is viewed as a mistake. It is (and always has been), a major ~even lauded, aspect of the entire series.

This.
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Dalia
 
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Post » Thu Dec 24, 2009 1:44 pm

I am continually amazed that it is viewed as a mistake. It is (and always has been), a major ~even lauded, aspect of the entire series.

Welcome to the world of hand holding in Video Games. Not to be wearing my nostalgia glasses, but time was, the game would end, you'd feel accomplished beating it, then you'd start over. Now you have to make it unending, even though the after game content is usually mindless killing with no real purpose than to shut cry babies up. New Vegas should remain a fixed and absolute ending. Otherwise the aftergame Broken Steelesque DLC would just make New Vegas laughing stock number two. The only REAL mistake was Bethesda caving in to community pressure, the result? a half done DLC that borked the game.
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Steven Nicholson
 
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Post » Thu Dec 24, 2009 7:00 am

Broken Steel would've been fine if it had just removed the hard ending. The problem came about with increasing the level cap, which destroyed the already fragile balance of the game. Which is admittedly a classic case of Beth caving into community pressure. Or, as its sometimes known, giving people what they want. People don't know what's good for them.

Don't see that playing-beyond-the-ending is anything to do with hand-holding though. It's just a pretty standard feature of sandbox games. NV, whilst not strictly a pure sandbox game, is still wearing that hat, hence the disappointment of people used to ES/GTA/Crackdown/whatever.
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biiibi
 
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Post » Thu Dec 24, 2009 7:51 am

Welcome to the world of hand holding in Video Games. Not to be wearing my nostalgia glasses, but time was, the game would end, you'd feel accomplished beating it, then you'd start over. Now you have to make it unending, even though the after game content is usually mindless killing with no real purpose than to shut cry babies up. New Vegas should remain a fixed and absolute ending. Otherwise the aftergame Broken Steelesque DLC would just make New Vegas laughing stock number two. The only REAL mistake was Bethesda caving in to community pressure, the result? a half done DLC that borked the game.

I agree the ending wasn't a mistake it was a masterpiece a definitve ending is the only way to have a true ending broken steel was fun in it's one way but it crippled the ending and the only reason people really like bs is so they don't have to make a new character but i have to admit i liked the new enimes and weps.I hope that the ending is one "mistake" that doesn't get patched out.
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Marion Geneste
 
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Post » Thu Dec 24, 2009 1:47 pm

No point to continue the game after the MQ is done. Entire factions vanish as a result and thus little to do.

No, grinding re-spawning enemies isn't continuing.

i agree, the game does need to end because there isn't much to do anyway once the main quest is over.. but as far as the factions "vanishing", thats just end game slides...you can make up any story once the game is over and use that as an excuse to not actually incorporate anything more into the game cause people like you would say, "oh everything changes after the main quest it would be impossible for them to put all that in the game, ROFL....like i said before, games much better than new vegas let you keep on playing after the main story... practically every bethesda game since their games don't have endings, and their games are pretty top notch, and lots of others games, the stalker games let you keep playing, mass effect does and its a decent franchise, and plenty of other pretty good games, so its not a mark of a good game to have a short story then have the game end, it just means they didn't take the time to put in enough content.
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leni
 
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Post » Thu Dec 24, 2009 1:48 pm

i agree, the game does need to end because there isn't much to do anyway once the main quest is over.. but as far as the factions "vanishing", thats just end game slides...you can make up any story once the game is over and use that as an excuse to not actually incorporate anything more into the game cause people like you would say, "oh everything changes after the main quest it would be impossible for them to put all that in the game, ROFL....like i said before, games much better than new vegas let you keep on playing after the main story... practically every bethesda game since their games don't have endings, and their games are pretty top notch, and lots of others games, the stalker games let you keep playing, mass effect does and its a decent franchise, and plenty of other pretty good games, so its not a mark of a good game to have a short story then have the game end, it just means they didn't take the time to put in enough content.

Why do you care ? Fallout truly starts when you start again.
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Marcus Jordan
 
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Post » Thu Dec 24, 2009 5:21 am

i agree, the game does need to end because there isn't much to do anyway once the main quest is over.. but as far as the factions "vanishing", thats just end game slides...you can make up any story once the game is over and use that as an excuse to not actually incorporate anything more into the game cause people like you would say, "oh everything changes after the main quest it would be impossible for them to put all that in the game, ROFL....like i said before, games much better than new vegas let you keep on playing after the main story... practically every bethesda game since their games don't have endings, and their games are pretty top notch, and lots of others games, the stalker games let you keep playing, mass effect does and its a decent franchise, and plenty of other pretty good games, so its not a mark of a good game to have a short story then have the game end, it just means they didn't take the time to put in enough content.


West, I say this as a supporter of freeplay modes, but: you're dead wrong. Given the story they chose to tell in NV, trying to reflect the multitude of possile outcomes in the gameworld would've been all but impossible (and a fool's errand) in the time-frame they had to make the game in. Just using one example: if the Courier sides with Caesar, think about what that means for Vegas and its population. The entire city would have to be repopulated with new NPCs.

I haven't played Stalker, but your other examples: Mass Effect just has a freeplay mode, the world is as it was before the the final battle. The consequences of the story aren't reflected in the gameworld at all. In ES, at least Morrowind and Oblivion, the stories don't have particularly far-reaching consequences for the world they take place in. The quests to defeat Dagoth Ur or Mankar Camoran are basically self-contained, and the world carries on like it always did regardless of what happens. So playing on after the end offers no logistical difficulties at all.

Given the story they chose to try telling, the most you could've hoped for is a Mass Effect-style freeplay mode.
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NeverStopThe
 
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Post » Thu Dec 24, 2009 10:46 am

the stalker games let you keep playing

Just a small correction, only one of them does.
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Devin Sluis
 
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Post » Thu Dec 24, 2009 10:48 am

http://www.newvegasnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=34811 mod allows for play after the MQ is done. Problem solved.
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Andy durkan
 
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Post » Thu Dec 24, 2009 11:12 am

Well, this is what I do - I save the game at roughly the half-way point and then play out each scenario differently. If I don't like the ending I get, I can always restart around that level and repeat the same steps while making sure I make different decisions for the outcome. In my case, I've maxed my character out at Level 30 by roaming the countryside, killing every bad-guy and monster alike before I really get down to business. It may take longer to finish the game this way, but by then you're not struggling with the Super Mutant Surprise on Black Mountain or the Deathclaw Decathalon Sprint when clearing out Quarry Junction for those Deathclaw eggs.
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Brooks Hardison
 
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Post » Thu Dec 24, 2009 9:22 am

at this point you're just beating a dead horse
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Emily Graham
 
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Post » Thu Dec 24, 2009 11:00 am

at this point you're just beating a dead horse

More like a mutilated horses brain.
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Budgie
 
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Post » Thu Dec 24, 2009 1:31 pm

Welcome to the world of hand holding in Video Games. Not to be wearing my nostalgia glasses, but time was, the game would end, you'd feel accomplished beating it, then you'd start over. Now you have to make it unending, even though the after game content is usually mindless killing with no real purpose than to shut cry babies up. New Vegas should remain a fixed and absolute ending. Otherwise the aftergame Broken Steelesque DLC would just make New Vegas laughing stock number two. The only REAL mistake was Bethesda caving in to community pressure, the result? a half done DLC that borked the game.


:clap: :clap: :clap:

Could not have said it any better myself.

/dead horse beating
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Beat freak
 
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Post » Thu Dec 24, 2009 5:59 am

:clap: :clap: :clap:

Could not have said it any better myself.

/dead horse beating

Ditto.

Annnnnnnnnnd: Dead horse beating is still a crime in Montana. It is. Look it up at the PETDH website.

-Gunny out.
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Barbequtie
 
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Post » Thu Dec 24, 2009 2:27 am

West... you dont even know what you are talking about...
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Sherry Speakman
 
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Post » Thu Dec 24, 2009 8:38 am

I do agree with you. Im not that bothered about the game ending, it gives you plenty warning this time which is good.
I was just thinking maybe they could let you still explore the mojave searching for side quests without any of the changes after the end. Sounds pretty silly to me but maybe it would stop some of the people complaining. Having the choice there wouldn't do any harm?



thats easily solved by just going to -> Load game isn't it? So look the feature you want is already built in from the beginning!
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Jason Rice
 
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Post » Thu Dec 24, 2009 5:19 am

I am continually amazed that it is viewed as a mistake. It is (and always has been), a major ~even lauded, aspect of the entire series.


People new to the series played Fallout 3, they expected New Vegas to be similar, it was not. Some of them are disappointed.
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Daniel Brown
 
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Post » Thu Dec 24, 2009 2:49 pm

People new to the series played Fallout 3, they expected New Vegas to be similar, it was not. Some of them are disappointed.

FO3 had an end before Broken Steel.
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Ladymorphine
 
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Post » Thu Dec 24, 2009 5:55 pm

Yes, and they removed it with Broken Steel because people expected that a Bethesda game keeps going after the end. I'm guessing people like me who hadn't played a Bethesda game before that didn't mind the game ending. Atleast i didn't.
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Tinkerbells
 
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Post » Thu Dec 24, 2009 3:40 am

Yes, and they removed it with Broken Steel because people expected that a Bethesda game keeps going after the end. I'm guessing people like me who hadn't played a Bethesda game before that didn't mind the game ending. Atleast i didn't.
A significant ending is a hallmark of this series, and they broke that with Broken Steel. IMO, that their TES series is deliberately timeless is no excuse to shoe-horn that design into an established series that is decidedly not [timeless]. :shrug:

They are a pro-studio, and I honestly expected them to design towards the series and not away from it.
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Amanda Furtado
 
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