Indeed. She is clearly just as brave, if not more so than the other characters.

Actually Skyrim has always been equal gender on things, sixism doesn't really exist in large doses enough to actually say that a certain gender is discriminated against in the TES universe and even the nordic people in our history which the nords are based off of weren't sixist, in fact before Christianity hit them the viking tribes were known to be fairly equal about gender.

Yep, same with the other Pagan cultures of Europe. Be it the Celts, Germans, Scandinavians, Scythians, Sarmatians, etc... women were found among the warrior aristocracy. Even the among the Romans, aristocratic women fought as gladiators. They were described as fighting by torchlight, so they went on in the evening. So they were the main event as well. IRL, gender has nothing to do with someone's ability or inclination to kill someone else.

I wasn't flaming the post. I was expressing the opinion that the quoted statement was idiotic. There was nothing implied (or intended) about the poster. I also put a in the post, in the hope that my intention would be understood.

Depends on what climate you're talking about. In Skyrim? Yes, it is pretty unrealistic to have women warriors running around half naked. But in Africa I've seen warrior women with all their bits hanging out, so it isn't unrealistic to suggest that there could well be some tribe in TES from a warmer climate where women warriors are similarly dressed/undressed.

Thats a matter of debate. i'd go with the view expressed here http://www.ladyofrohan.com/tracywitchking.html that Merry's blow weakened the WitchKing but Eowyn struck the killing blow.

"The Witchking of Angmar is killed when Merry stabs him in the leg with a dagger specifically enchanted the weaken/kill the Witchking at the same time that Eowyn stabs the Witchking." - Almost exactly the same point as the article quoted. Both must strike their respective blows to kill the Witchking. Could Eowyn have done it alone? Possibly. The context of 'Man' would be the question. Is it that no 'Man' as in Male vs Female, or no 'Man' as in Man vs Elf vs Dwarf vs Orc vs Troll vs Goblin vs Hobbit vs Snake vs Butterfly vs etc, could harm the WK. If it was strictly MvF, then Merry's blow was useless to the story, and would not have affected the WK at all (he would not have staggered from the blow, passing through his non-corporeal body). If it's not MvF, then anybody at anytime could have killed him (as long as they weren't human). Frankly either version (MvF or MvEvDvEtc) is a pretty weak protection - the WK would be running skrieking like a little girl from every female elf he saw... I believe that the 'No Man May Harm Me' bit was more of a prophecy of his destruction in addition to a protection against harm. Or it could have been just pure arrogance on his part - "Puny mortal, no one can harm me, I'm the bloody WK of Angmar!!!!"

No, my specific point is that the blow struck by Merry using the dagger found in the Barrow earlier in the books (Westernesse dagger I believe) was designed specfically to kill/harm the WK. By stabbing him in the leg with the dagger, Merry basically removed/weakened the protection (spell/curse/etc) of the WK, and Eowyn struck the final blow that killed WK because of the protection loss. However, I still think that she was one fo the bravest people in the book. Heck, she was the only one (well, her and Merry) to face the WK. Everybody else (all of the brave male Riders of Rohan) stood around soiling their armor while watching.

I play males, because I am a male.

I don't play females, because I am not a female.

Yeah, that's true. I guess what really bothers me is when armor is skimpy simply for the sake of being sixy. Like, the Forsworn stuff doesn't bother me so much as it's more indicative of Forsworn culture. Hide armor's okay, too, because it's supposed to suggest a cruder construction. And both male and female styles are just as revealing. Now, if male ebony armor was like it is in-game, but female ebony was very revealing, that would seem out of place.

Aesthetically, I'd much rather look at a well-armored woman, but that's just my own opinion on what I think is attractive. I can accept skimpy armor if it's because of legitimate cultural or technological reasons. For instance, I could easily see Argonians of both genders running around in very little, if any, armor.
I dunno. It's just weird to me when a culture has their warrior men protected by full plate while their warrior women are in little leather bikinis. I know it's not necessarily an impossible scenario, but it just seems unlikely.

I don't play girls. I play women

I am a woman and think it's nice to get the chance to play kick-ass women in a world where gender doesn't mean as much as in our own. I do plan for my next character to be male, though I think he might be gay.

As for the eye-candy, I've never thought of my own characters to function that way, I mean, they are "me" - it's nice if I look good, but I don't go around drooling over myself. That would be weird. I don't mind if there are a few hot male npc's around, though

Not ebony, but the Orcish armour has a rather unnecessarily low-cut neck on women that isn't present on men; some of the light armours do too, but, well, they're light armour, and when you've got some people running around http://www.uesp.net/wiki/File:SR-item-Fur_Armor_Male_02.jpg* it kind of comes of as being more clothing than armour anyway.

What really tends to bug me is more armour/clothing changing significantly when, say, my character (a woman) picks them up from a man who had been wearing them; this includes things like Dragonscale armour which cover everything either way but still look different for no identifiable reason. So, basically, like you said, it's more it being different, at least in a game like Skyrim where all the heavy armours cover everything vital. Any other problems than coverage... well, I've seen that discussion turn ugly so I'll leave it be for now and shove it under "don't like the two types of armour being different".


*Now, if only I could get Farkas to wear that...



Well, it's an impossible scenario as long as the women are expected to actually fight in melee (which, of course, is very much the case in Tamriel, and the Elder Scrolls series pretty much unformly has them dressing accordingly). When you have them there just for show rather than for their military merits (that being the common out-of-character reason for the silly skimpy armour, of course, but hey...), that's a different matter (and itself very unlikely).

Iron armor did that in Oblivion also. It would mystically, inexplicably change shape, depending on which six put it on, one of the armor-related things I didn't care for in that game.

i made the desicion with a mental coin flip. female. she will soul trap you, electrocute you to death, and raise your body as a zombie just to spite you.

Not to mention take all your hard won gold and jewels to buy herself new armour, weapons and enchanted jewellery...

Male who occasionally plays female characters here, when given the option or if the protagonist happens to be female (I'm a Metroid fan and also really dug Silent Hill 3. I could name more, but I digress). Are they nicer to look at? At times. Sure. Though I see nothing wrong with basking in the awesomeness of a badass male character that took hours to reach a god-like level of strength.

Speaking of badassness, what's all the hubbub about female characters being all about finesse and not engaging in direct melee...blah, blah, blah...? I like to give female characters full heavy armor and a two handed weapon and have 'em go to town on whatever stands in their way, but maybe that's just me.

The point is Bethesda gives players the option. It all falls into their "You are what you play." mantra with this game and the whole series, really. They give us the tools and let us do what we want with them.

To answer the question: I do it for variety.

Women may be slightly less strong than men in some muscle groups on average (never mind that said average is overwhelmed by any individual differences people might have, not to mention no accounting for women being discouraged from building strength), so that means "delicate" women should avoid dangerous front-line situations because those "stronger" men have to protect them (or could easily defeat them); from that viewpoint it's just people choosing what they're naturally best at. Basically, it's a bit of old social mores sticking around through inertia and people not realising what they are (I'm feeling charitable so I'll assume the best rather than how many might not think women should be fighting at all but want to appear "progressive" ).


(The funny thing is, archery requires much, much more strength than sword fighting, which is based on finesse, does, but you still see women using bows and men up front with swords, because the people coming up with the depictions don't really know much about archery and melee fighting aside from one putting you in more direct danger of being hit back than the other, and figuring heavy armour = strength.)

I'm also going to assume the best and tell myself that crack about wanting to appear progressive wasn't aimed specifically at me. I'm not trying to impress anyone. I don't know any of the female members of this message board and I don't care to (no offense).

I don't fall into that desperate nerd stereotype that some people brought up and it's my observation that some of the sixist comments some have posted here pertaining to the limitations of the female gender are enough to make my girlfriend of nearly 3 years say, "Oh, you did NOT just say that..." Though I think Arnold said it better in Commando, "Bull...s***!"

I suppose I do like strong women; not so much physically, but strong willed. My girlfriend is liable to kick me in the nether region and dump me if I so much as suggest she isn't as capable as a man. And I swear she isn't standing over me, making me type these things; I really believe that aside from the obvious biological limitations that a woman can achieve anything a man can (provided her society doesn't limit her ability to achieve).

In regards to video games: What I AM saying is I don't think it's a breach of role-playing protocol to make a female character into a friggin' tank!

In Skyrim, the men are big, burly and have beards and the women are big, burly and have beards.

I think it's only realistic that women know how to fight in a world like TES. I mean, you can be killed by pretty much anything and at any time, so you should learn how to fight.

When I play a girl in TES, it's usually because I'm tired of playing a male character all the time.

The type of strong female characters I enjoy, are tough, determined and fierce but keep their femininty. A good example is Keira Knightly at Gwyn in King Arthur. Beautiful, strong, brave and deadly with a bow, but equally as skilled at flirting with the opposite six. These characters for me play well as archers and duel wielding light swords or magic. To sword and board or two-handed weapon fight I think you need a female built like a brick $#!++ house or translated for non aussie slang speaking persons - BIG,which I am not fond of.

I believe dainty female's arms would not be able to swing more than twice, max, a greatsword or Battleaxe and their arms would shatter if holding a shield against a burly male whacking them with his weapon of choice.

My female hero's in real life are Joan of Arc & Jael in the bible.

that too.

Who say women can't fight? A woman Karate master can knock down any men with one punch, provided if those men don't know how to block or avoid it of course.

Not all men are strong anyway, a typist in the office not as fit as a soccer player, and a soccer player is not as resilient as a soldier in the army.

There are fat men, big men, small men, skinny men, sports men and many more, they all have different degree of strength. And some maybe weaker than average women.

A swordwoman can kill a swordman and vice versa in a duel, it is just a matter of skill (and luck).

And gender role are different for each culture and races

i'm a guy, and i'm WEAK. very weak. but rather intelligent. stereotypically, it's the other way around

In the real world, two handed swords weigh up to about five pounds; TES games present them as if they were much heavier. Battle axes and hammers were nowhere near the weight that Bethesda would have you believe, either.

http://femalemuscle.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/photo.jpg