Well, sure.

The point I was trying to make is that he got really attached to Westside and was prepared to do a lot of terrible things to help the little guys.



As in I did not really find his actions corrupt.

I understood your point. But you see his actions as being acceptable while I do not. I'm just not an "the ends justify the means" guy. In fact, I couldn't be more opposed to that type of thinking, but that's neither here nor there.



Yep, I understood that too.

Shall we just agree to disagree and move on?

I support Mr. House because i usually play a backwater eye for an eye religous survivalist Courier. he knows he to dumb to control all of what Mr House can do and pretty much dosent really care about New vegas, he just wants it to stay him being his own master out in the desert. With tthe neon lights and the casinos, he knows the mojave will grow, BUT each settlement will grow with its own strength. Let Mr House control the New vegas and better the roads/buildings/etc around the mojave and let the people govern themselves and stand on their own feet.

NCR, why? because despite the flaws that they have they're still the best thing the wasteland have going for them. The only other one in my eyes who come close are Lyons BoS but they're still a long piece off from being able to have the kind of infuence the NCR has and being able to affect as big of a area.

Besides talking about the flaws they have, what kind of organization doesn't have problems? Especially one as big as the NCR is, if they were perfect white nights who couldn't do anything wrong they just wouldn't fit into the Fallout universe or the real universe for that matter.

I support the Enclave because it is the lawful successor of the US government and thus it's the legal overseer of post-war America B)

The Enclave is the only faction to create genuine post-war technology, they are the only faction to actively use aircraft, they have satellites, superweapons, but most of all undying dedication and incredible skills at survival. While they were pretty much mauled in the past two games they still exist and I am convinced we will hear of them again. Not anytime soon, but "again" is a rather relative term.
The Enclave doesn't have problems with corruption like NCR. The Enclave wisely uses technology and provides equal rights to its citizens unlike Legion. The Enclave has interests outside their own backyard unlike House. The Enclave has plans instead of just shrugging what the hell we do now? Eden says that the Enclave has plans in motion to restore America in a few decades. Not rebuild most likely, but centralize the nation under a single banner. That is something only the Enclave is capable of.

The Enclave also has freedom of speech (its own soldiers can actively protest its activities) and a bit literal "open doors policy". Don't like it, there's the door. The Enclave appears to show very little interest to deserters.

I'm the kind of person who accepts most actions if they are doing them for the right reasons (and it makes sense, not somebody punching someone on the street to cure cancer).

Agree to disagree :foodndrink: .



Lyons BoS is flawed, your posy basically says they're perfect.

NCR is nothing like those white knights in DC, they are a bloated, corrupt government that does not give two [censored] about their people.



I agree that no faction is perfect but the NCR is very far off from that.

The two that are closest to perfection (Followers of the Apocalypse and House) are both opposed to the NCR so that speaks volumes of what they're really like.

Why does anyone support any faction?

I support the Enclave.
When Ignorance and Mutations ran rampent through America following the war, The Enclave had a plan that would allow Pure-strain humanity to prosper.
But some danmed "Plot armored" tribal punk, ruined any hope of salvation!
Its now up to brave Enclave indivduals to Eradicate any Mutant scum they come across!
The Encalve offers a chance, thats why I support them!

I support the Legion and Independence.

For Legion, it ensures long term survival and allows humanity to rebuild from the ground up. Most criticism comes from slavery and sixism. The former is contingent with the latter in a sense that females are always available and considering the Legion runs on slave labor as they cannot balance out the need for slaves with the captures that can be gotten from any group in the Legion.

As for slavery, the only reason you think it's evil is because the forceful slavery of old is now mostly abolished. Not the racist slavery mind you, I mean slavery. Ancient Egyptian whipping, Ancient Romans giving some rights to slaves but still fairly forceful, etc. If you depended on slave labor for daily activities or for business, why would you oppose it? Do you like being bankrupt?

Pros? Well Legion cleanses Super Mutants. Whether they're sapient creatures or dumb beasts really doesn't matter. Mutants, except a few, are unstable, as demonstrated by the Nightkin. And what's to say that after humanity is mostly rebuilt, the Super Mutants won't change again into something worse? Just exterminate all Super Mutants! They're dumb beasts anyways. Remember, they aren't a product of humans in radiation. They're a product of the FEV. They really are beasts now.

Ghouls...well that's touchy. They are more stable and won't turn feral after they've already changed. That I don't agree with as they are regular humans exposed to radiation. Besides, killing ghouls isn't that hard if they do turn feral. They're no stronger than humans when fighting so they aren't a big threat. At least ghouls are sterile and can't breed more ghouls. Not to mention more ghouls can't exist after the radioactive particles are mostly decayed...unlike FEV which can be manufactured again or found again.

Legion has a very good structure once sixism is gone and slavery is limited to prisoners of war, criminals, and anti-Legion. Think about it. All citizens are dedicated to the state. All produce is dedicated to the state. It's for the state, by the state, of the state. Individuals are less valuable than the collective. Well that means that most citizens wouldn't be criminals after a few generations are indoctrinated into the system.

The State cannot be corrupt as the individual produce isn't as valuable and after a few generations of indoctrination, they'll believe it, which will minimize corruption to a few greedy souls in Caesar's inner circle...which brings me to my next point.

Caesar is an entity, not a person. When they say "Legion will fall when Caesar dies", well of course. The concept of Caesar isn't Edward Sallow, it's Caesar. After Sallow dies, his heir will take over and that will be the next Caesar. Hopefully it won't be Lanius but still, it will be Caesar. As long as the Legionaries have a point to follow, the Legion will exist. Once citizenship exists other than just Legionary or Slave, they'll follow the word of CAESAR, not Sallow.

Note how almost nobody knows Caesar's real name of Edward Sallow. When Sallow dies, he'll be revered as the First Caesar and then the next Caesar will take over. When he dies, he'll be revered as the Second Caesar and so on. All armies and nations have a single or multiple symbols to drive them. For NCR, it's a republic. For House, it's Vegas. And for Legion, it's Caesar and the Bull.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
As for why Independence is the next best thing...well Martyr brought up a good point. If J.E Sawyer's point about Yes Man not being skynet is true...well that basically means the Courier can do anything he wants when anarchy breaks down. He could conquer the NCR, he could conquer the Legion. The world is your playground.

Talk to Col Moore, Martyr. It's cannon.

I won't waste my time doing another NCR playthrough, already got the trophy for it. Besides, I'm sure it only applies to troopers. NCR isnt the kind to hand things out for free and expect nothing in return.

No, it's not only for troopers....she never said that.

There is the holograms. There is no way the Legion could figure out their weakness.



Have you ever heard of taxes?

So he makes a nation out of holograms?

That's hardly a true nation.

Yeah, Peace for the both of you, let's just hope the courier is canonically female haha.

What i have been saying is the west will die to the cloud, while Elijah will send the hologram emiters east to destroy all who resists and create Fatherelijahland out of what remind.

I have no idea how anyone can look up to Elijah, he's the biggest butt hole of Fallout.

That is the only way humanity would survive, and that would be with years of inbreeding to follow.



It may be peaceful but that would mean the destruction of humanity (unless what is posted above happens).

I didn't mean to make it sound like I thought Lyons BoS was perfect, because I don't, but they are probably the most "good" major faction we've seen in Fallout other than the Followers. Not sure where you get off thinking the NCR doesn't care about their people though other than the whole bloated corrupt arguement that every NCR hater plugs into a argument.

And House is not perfect dude, don't even get me started on how wrong that is, but I can promise you that his opinion of the NCR doesn't really say anything at all about them.

The House.

House isn't perfect, but picking anyone but him (Spoilers!) requires you kill him. House is resourceful, intelligent, and most importantly he has a treasure trove of otherwise completely -lost- knowledge in his head. He was the CEO of Robco before the war, and he's still alive. He has more expertise on tech than the entire brotherhood, and he wants humanity in space. I can get behind that.

If I were the courier, I would let House work on getting humanity spacebound, and work on improving lives in the Vegas area myself. It isn't as though the courier lacks resources to do that. Hell, the Vegas nation could expand northeast into Utah. The Zion Valley has a lot of arable land and fresh water, while being relatively undefended.

More than any major factions I support the BoS. They have a noble goal but are human and don't always see the light of their own ways.

For major factions I'm behind the NCR. Democracy baby!

Huh?

Independent - Open to much interpretation. I feel the people that live in the mojave and NV should have a chance to make something of they're own (with courier's help). With the followers help, the people in the area would have access to education and healthcare. Most important, the people of the area will be free, and not ruled by people the don't hate. Sure, life will still be hard but they're tough people and they'll do just fine.

Well you could say that the NCR produces all their army outfits and things like that, Although not new in the basics the design and stuff like that is new.


As far as I know there is no where in game that says NCR doesn't care about their people, then the few instances that says the NCR is corrupt. The problem that I see is the lack of care for the war with Caesar's Legion due to this the NCR looks weak and people take this the wrong way.

How is House perfect? The way I see it, he is just as greedy or selfish as some of the politicians in the NCR. Wanting to live for centuries, testing some of his experiments on the people he dated, and his insitance that Vegas belongs to him. The NCR seems to be just as big as an influence on the strip as house if not more. It is mostly there citizens there, they have a lot of MP's and they have an headquarters there.

pretty much uses the cloud to wipe the slate clean in mojave and gathers straglers and set them up with bomb collars to go to work. set up the holograms for protection and can feed the inhabitates with the vending machines. TBH i think if he got out of the S. M. he woulda sucessfully created his own technologically advanced slave nation, pretty much whats Ceasers doing but with SCIENCE!