Will we be able to re-order our perk tree? : V

» Sun Jul 18, 2010 11:01 am

If I regret for upgrading something, let's say I chose to have the perk: Axes can cause bleeding over time damage. But after a while I discovered that I don't like axes at all, and I wanted to change my expertise from axes to something else, I should be able to unlearn axes, shouldn't I? Or is it a "realistic" kind of thing, like 'you can't undo stuff that you did before because you can't change the past' kind of thing?

» Sun Jul 18, 2010 5:53 am

I don't think you can unlearn perks once you have them.

» Sun Jul 18, 2010 12:55 pm

No. save before leveling up so you can try perks out.

» Sun Jul 18, 2010 2:27 am

I dont think it will be possible. Rather hard to unlearn something...at least without some form of magic/hypnotism. I don't see it happening. Makes you're choises much more important.

» Sun Jul 18, 2010 3:09 am

Don't understand me wrong or anything, I do enjoy the idea of having a perk-tree, it makes you unique and gives you more choice and power over everything you do. But if we make a mistake then it's probably crucial to your game play, it's kinda harsh for people just starting the game and have no idea what's good for them and what's not.

» Sun Jul 18, 2010 2:00 am

It's difficult to implement something like this and keep it balanced - it's rather unfair to let you benefit from a number of perks and then have you switch them all out for later benefit.

I wouldn't mind seeing this implemented in a minimal way, perhaps every ten levels you get the ability to remove a change a perk.

» Sun Jul 18, 2010 10:58 am

I think though, even if you're just starting, you're probably going to figure out which direction you want to take your character no long into the game. You can choose up to 50 perks. So even if you accidently waste a couple early on and decide it's not what you like, it might not be that bad.

» Sun Jul 18, 2010 12:23 am

Don't understand me wrong or anything, I do enjoy the idea of having a perk-tree, it makes you unique and gives you more choice and power over everything you do. But if we make a mistake then it's probably crucial to your game play, it's kinda harsh for people just starting the game and have no idea what's good for them and what's not.

Well I think the perks will have descriptions of what they will do, and I don't think can really do a "crucial mistake" with them. The perks will have skill restrictions, so if you are using swords you can't take all the axe perks and why would you anyway?

» Sun Jul 18, 2010 3:33 pm

It's difficult to implement something like this and keep it balanced - it's rather unfair to let you benefit from a number of perks and then have you switch them all out for later benefit.

I wouldn't mind seeing this implemented in a minimal way, perhaps every ten levels you get the ability to remove a change a perk.

You're right on this one. It should be limited, but I think it should still be implemented, for example: Let's say you upgraded something that had to do with maces at the beginning of the game, but later on you just stopped using maces completely, which means it's a skill that got wasted for nothing.

If it's in, I think it should like this:
After X amount of time not using a certain perk that you chose (let's assume) 10 levels ago, the game asks you if you wish to replace this perk with another. Or doing so by replacing a perk instead of adding one when you level up.

» Sun Jul 18, 2010 10:06 am

Don't understand me wrong or anything, I do enjoy the idea of having a perk-tree, it makes you unique and gives you more choice and power over everything you do. But if we make a mistake then it's probably crucial to your game play, it's kinda harsh for people just starting the game and have no idea what's good for them and what's not.

Remember you do get to choose a total of 50 perks. I'm sure a couple of wrong choices wont matter too much. Also i think it is expected on your first playthrough, if its like Oblivion i chose everything wrong with my character to start with. I played for 170 hours, and restarted with a much better understanding of the game. My second character was more powerful than my first within 20-30 hours.

» Sun Jul 18, 2010 12:41 pm

Don't understand me wrong or anything, I do enjoy the idea of having a perk-tree, it makes you unique and gives you more choice and power over everything you do. But if we make a mistake then it's probably crucial to your game play, it's kinda harsh for people just starting the game and have no idea what's good for them and what's not.

I'm guessing that the "tutorial" or "introduction" section of the game will let you get used to various types of weapons, and picking perks on your favourite type will never drastically alter the gameplay. This will streamline the game, but make it tedious for replays (unless each weapon plays drastically different, in which case it's a pretty good system).

» Sun Jul 18, 2010 10:19 am

Well I think the perks will have descriptions of what they will do, and I don't think can really do a "crucial mistake" with them. The perks will have skill restrictions, so if you are using swords you can't take all the axe perks and why would you anyway?

Ofcourse you'll know what each perk does before choosing it, but the question at hand is if you chose something and then, in the far future, you regret for choosing it because it's of no more use to you.
Plus, skill restrictions won't deny you from choosing perks, you'll be able to choose a perk from level 1 to level 2.

» Sun Jul 18, 2010 2:55 pm

Ofcourse you'll know what each perk does before choosing it, but the question at hand is if you chose something and then, in the far future, you regret for choosing it because it's of no more use to you.
Plus, skill restrictions won't deny you from choosing perks, you'll be able to choose a perk from level 1 to level 2.

I dont think perks that are chosen early on with have any effect on the game when at level 30 for example. They are likely to be low level/low power perks anyway.

» Sun Jul 18, 2010 1:31 pm

I'm guessing that the "tutorial" or "introduction" section of the game will let you get used to various types of weapons, and picking perks on your favourite type will never drastically alter the gameplay. This will streamline the game, but make it tedious for replays (unless each weapon plays drastically different, in which case it's a pretty good system).

They already stated that weapons are by far different from each other "Each weapon has its own unique feeling", though there will always be perks that don't add much to your status, especially for the ones that think they like Stealth and then they think to themselves "Oh damn, I want to be a warrior now, I have to create a new character..."

» Sun Jul 18, 2010 1:23 am

Well I think the perks will have descriptions of what they will do, and I don't think can really do a "crucial mistake" with them. The perks will have skill restrictions, so if you are using swords you can't take all the axe perks and why would you anyway?

No as I remember in Fallout 3 few perks had a downside, yes many who selected bloody mess got bored of it, you also had the law bringer and contract killer who excluded each other.
But except from this only downside was that you wasted a perk.
However you might find it useful later, take maces and a perk who ignores armor, it would be weak early in the game then enemies has weak armor and low skill, however it would be far more useful in level 50 dungeons against enemies in ebony and daeric. :toughninja:

I'm also pretty sure it's a console command for adding and removing perks, it was in Fallout 3 as I understand.

» Sun Jul 18, 2010 3:33 pm

If it's in, I think it should like this:
After X amount of time not using a certain perk that you chose (let's assume) 10 levels ago, the game asks you if you wish to replace this perk with another. Or doing so by replacing a perk instead of adding one when you level up.

You do realize the latter, is pointless. You might as well just keep your old one then.

» Sun Jul 18, 2010 1:16 am

You do realize the latter, is pointless. You might as well just keep your old one then.

xD yeah, you're right... didn't think about it, though I was giving an example, not a solution...

» Sun Jul 18, 2010 12:15 pm

Changes to your selections should not be allowed - takes away from the "decision" factor for this game, as mistakes will be made.

That being said, I hope that the game does not show you all of the available perks; only the ones which you can afford (attributes & perks = $$$$)

» Sun Jul 18, 2010 10:26 am

Well, the purpose of this system is to support specialized characters. Meaning, if you max all your skills to 100 you will be a great at everything. But you will only be a master at the skills you "specialized" in by perking. You'll still be able to play however you want, you just won't be the absolute best at everything unless you create multiple characters.

For instance: I get 100 One-Handed, and I've completely perked out the Sword tree. I'm still going to kick ass with a mace or a axe. But I'll always do my best with a sword.

» Sun Jul 18, 2010 4:07 pm

Well, the purpose of this system is to support specialized characters. Meaning, if you max all your skills to 100 you will be a great at everything. But you will only be a master at the skills you "specialized" in by perking. You'll still be able to play however you want, you just won't be the absolute best at everything unless you create multiple characters.

For instance: I get 100 One-Handed, and I've completely perked out the Sword tree. I'm still going to kick ass with a mace or a axe. But I'll always do my best with a sword.

I see your point, I guess you're right, it's logical.

» Sun Jul 18, 2010 7:58 am

If I regret for upgrading something, let's say I chose to have the perk: Axes can cause bleeding over time damage. But after a while I discovered that I don't like axes at all, and I wanted to change my expertise from axes to something else, I should be able to unlearn axes, shouldn't I? Or is it a "realistic" kind of thing, like 'you can't undo stuff that you did before because you can't change the past' kind of thing?

You can't "unlearn perks". What was meant that unlike the case of "Sword, Blunt and Axe" you can just try something else without having to relearn a whole skill alltogether.

» Sun Jul 18, 2010 6:18 am

Not at all. Maybe after the tutorial you will be able to change something but not later in the game.

If I start playing then became unhappy with my character for some reason, I just start a new one.

» Sun Jul 18, 2010 6:26 am

Changes to your selections should not be allowed - takes away from the "decision" factor for this game, as mistakes will be made.

That being said, I hope that the game does not show you all of the available perks; only the ones which you can afford (attributes & perks = $$$$)

Why should it not? Fist they talk about perk trees, I assume that many perks will depend on that you have selected previous perks. If the lowest perk in the tree is weak you might not select it as you think it's a dead end.
Second a few hours after release the full perk tree will be listed here, on uesp and 100 other sites with pages of discussion about them.

» Sun Jul 18, 2010 12:01 pm

Let's say you upgraded something that had to do with maces at the beginning of the game, but later on you just stopped using maces completely, which means it's a skill that got wasted for nothing.

=role-playing

» Sun Jul 18, 2010 6:21 pm

I sure hope not. If I spend the study time during levelup to learn something, I can't just change my mind later on. That just doesn't make sense. You pick what you think is good for you and deal with the consequences later. I'm not *that* perk confident in FONV, but even if I choose slightly wrong it won't ruin the game.