I've had the pleasure of playing "Morrowind", "Oblivion" and "Skyrim" and enjoyed them all.

As far as roleplaying goes "Oblivion" stands head and shoulders above the other 2.

"Morrowind" is amazing but becomes less 'character' driven and more 'loot' driven the more you realise what cool loot is available in the game.

"Skyrim" is amazing but many of the primary stories are 'overtold' to the point that it's stifling for the background and motivations for your character.

In "Oblivion", depending on your character's motivations and aspirations you could end up having significantly different game experiences through multiple playthroughs.

It doesn't have crutches like 'The Creeper', 'The Grand Soul Gem' available from the Enchantress in the Mage's Guild, 'The Lord's Mail', 'The Temple Treasury at Ghostgate' and dozens of other "Must Loot" spots that get in the way of roleplaying in "Morrowind".

It's stories aren't so over written that you feel out of place if you do not want to see yourself as the "True Dragonborn Saviour of the Realm" like in "Skyrim".

"Oblivion" is definately the best 'Dungeon Master' I've ever had and though some people lamented the lack of fixed location super-loot and others wished the game would have held their hand a little more when it came to story I really hope Bethesda can re-capture the superb Role Playing element they perfected in "Oblvion".

Az

Matter of taste
I found Cyrodil rather bland compared to much more atmospheric Skyrim and MW, and the large variety of factions in MW each with their own questlines gives more scope for RP IMO as a warrior of House Redoran will be quite different to one who joins the Legion or the FG for example

Oblivion was a one off. Sometimes the visuals and atmosphere of a game intertwine with the music so perfectly it makes for an amazing experience. Oblivion was that game.

Interesting. It's not often I hear Oblivion praised so highly... especially from fairly experienced TES fans. Personally, I think it's a good all-round game with some serious flaws (like level-scaling) that hold it back from being the best in the series. I'd perhaps consider it the most charming game of the series.... but then, that's rather subjective. A lot of people don't like the setting at all.

As an RPG, I would say Daggerfall sets the standard for the series by far. While as an open-world game, Morrowind still sets the standard.

Not at all coughUmbracough.

If you're referring to Morrowind's hand-placed loot, I could not disagree more. The more static world - and especially hand-placed loot - is the single thing I most miss in Oblivion and Skyrim. Oblivion's rigid, crude, ham-fisted item leveling (where virtually every single piece of loot in the game is inexorably tied to our character's level) virtually ruined the fun of exploration for me. One of the joys of exploring Vvardenfell for me was knowing there was cool loot to be found. Knowing in Oblivion that I was never, ever, ever, going to find anything that was not appropriate for my level was the worst design decision Bethesda made in Oblivion. It led to the "bandits in Daedric armor" phenomenon. It was awful. It stank, pure and simple.

And I simply do not know what you're talking about when you say Morrowind becomes "less character driven." I have never experienced that. In my opinion, Morrowind is resolutely the most character-driven of the last three games in every way I can think of.



What does "overtold" mean? I Googled "overtold" and came up with nothing. What does "stifling for the background and motivations for your character" mean and how does it relate to "overtold?" Could you rephrase this in English?



This is true of each of the last three games. Personally, I'm having more "significantly different game experiences" in Skyrim than I ever had in Oblivion. I haven't had this amount of "significantly different game experiences" since I last played Morrowind.



There were no "must loot" spots that got in the way of my roleplaying. If you were unable to restrain yourself I feel bad for you. Roleplaying is all about self-imposed limits. A roleplayer takes only those actions that our characters might plausibly take. This principle has always precluded me from exploiting what you call "crutches" and "must loot spots."



Not me. I am on my fourth character and only one has done the main quest. I may never do it again (I've only done the main quests of all the games once). I do not feel "out of place" at all when I play characters who do not see themselves as the "True Dragonborn Saviour of the Realm."

In fact, if I were asked to name one Elder Scrolls game that obnoxiously shoved its main quest down my throat it would be Oblivion. From witnessing the Emperor's murder to being told by one NPC after another what a crisis Cyrodiil is in to having NPCs run screaming down the road from the refugee camp to having 50 Oblivion Gates constantly popping up and despoiling the landscape wherever I go, Oblivion grabs you by the throat and strangles you with its main quest. If you ask me, Oblivion's main quest is the most intrusive, obnoxious main quest in the entire Elder Scrolls series. Personally, I felt out of place when I didn't see my characters as the "Champion of Cyrodiil."


Wow, I'm really stumped with this one. I don't recall anybody ever wishing that Oblivion would have held their hand more. That's a new one on me. My recollection of reading posts on this forum and elsewhere is just the opposite. Since 2006 I have been reading about how players hate and despise hand-holding in Oblivion. You'll have to link me to a thread or post where somebody said this because I do not recall reading such a statement.

Skyrim and Morrowind had a better handcrafted world and unique atmoshpere.

Oblivion was so mediocre that I cant play it without mods.

Mods is what saved Oblivion, without it that game feels bland.

Azrael, you realize that your argument doesn't begin to follow or hold value for anyone else?

You're presenting a personal reaction based on a quirk of your character as an objective marker of a game's success.

Loot has nothing to do with roleplaying potential in its usual definition, and its usual definition is so impossibly personal that this thread is a waste of time that makes everyone snort with derisive glee when they see the title. Oblivion was the most uninspired, market-research-driven money-grabbing game in the series and should never be called lofty. Also, what the heck's wrong with Skyrim?

I did some really good roleplaying in Oblivion, but only because the game is so bland, empty of content and character that just about any crazy old idea would fit. They only got the first part of Live Another Life in Another World.

Morrowind is the only game where my character's have really had personalities, because I have the self-control not to go after all the phat lewtz. It never seems to happen with the MQ, but my secondary characters were all pure RP.

Roleplay is often helped by setting and while Oblivion's visuals and music were very pretty, it just didn't feel like it was set in Tamriel like Morrowind and Skyrim did. Oh sure, it was a really fun game and I've sunk at least 200 hours into it, almost certainly significantly more than that, but it just didn't strike the same chord as Morrowind and Skyrim did for me, internally. It's aesthetic was too smooth and bland, it's landscape and people too familiar, it's world too normal for it to really feel like a proper Elder Scrolls title.

The age of Morrowind>Everything is finally ending. Today, friends... the age of Oblivion>Everything truly begins. @u@

I see little evidence of that. Oblivion fans have so many reasons to like Skyrim that I don't see much of a backlash developing. And the Morrowhiners are still going strong, many of them viewing Skyrim as a partial vindication of their complaints with Oblivion.

The only real losers are the RPG fans.

Well, for me (having started with Morrowind and it being my introduction into a real rpg) I may be a bit biesed, but I can't help but agree with everything Wyrd said enough. I loved Oblivion as a game, it was tons of fun, but respectfuly it holds none of the virtues you listed above Morrowind.

Lol still parroting that "handcrafted" BS are we?

And Skyrim wasn't "market research driven"? "You're presenting a personal reaction based on a quirk of your character as an objective marker of a game's success" Aren't we all? That's some high rhetoric there.

"only because the game is so bland, empty of content and character that just about any crazy old idea would fit." That's a good thing, I disagree that it's bland, or at least not anymore bland than Skyrim or Morrowind.

It was not. It still is!

It's not really that complex.

For me "Oblivion" offers the best sandbox world to roleplay in.

"Morrowind" is brilliant but the loot kind of forces your hand in where you go and what you do to a degree. It doesn't have to but for many people it did and still does.

To be fair there is a full set of Ebony Armour waiting in a certain dungeon in "Oblivion" but your low level character isn't going to be running off with that.

With "Oblivion" you had people who couldn't motivate themselves to play. They needed an on rails adventure like "The Witcher 2" to fill in all the story bits for them. I feel "Skyrim" has responded to this with very detailed and particular major stories such as the Dragonborn main quest and the Imperials vs the Stormcloaks.

Whereas "Oblivion" gave you the skeleton and you fleshed it out "Skyrim" gives you a body wearing clothes.

If you disagree with me then I really don't mind.

I do not need to convince anyone that "Oblivion" is better than "Morrowind" or "Skyrim" and certainly nobody here has managed to convince me otherwise.

I've played my games and I know what I like and why I like it.

Hopefully that clears things up for you a bit.

If you disagree it's not really that big a deal.

Az

Off course, if loot was more randomized or shuffled, it would be better for Morrowind but full scaling is so much worse. We can cut some slack for Creeper in otherwiise an amazingly believable world.

Skyrim and Oblivion both boil down to some one-way scripted quests or going your own way which boils down to boring dungeon raiding. Avoiding loot stuff and dungeon raiding for a roleplayer would be easy since Morrowind has so much more...

How an Oblivion fan wouldn't like Skyrim? I mean maybe specifically for attributes and spellmaking, otherwise both games are the same except Skyrim looks so much better with improved gameplay.

The philosophies are so different between Oblivion/Skyrim and Morrowind. Day and night.

Oblivion was indeed a very fun game. They most likely won't make a game just like Oblivion or Skyrim or Morrowind again though. They seem to do things differently with each game. That is something I personally like about Bethesda though.

That's a highly inconsistent reaction the issue of item placement, however.

Oblivion's loot system isn't open and sandbox, it's completely homogenized. Every bandit and marauder, and thus every character, picks from the same very limited array of items based purely on the PC's level. The whole world revolves around your linear progression. No matter who I am or where I go, level determines everything.

With Morrowind's far-flung, non-leveled items (not to mention the existence of pauldrons and clothes), my character's gear isn't dependent on anything besides what I happen to come across. There's vastly greater scope for diversity and customization, which based on your criteria makes Morrowind a better sandbox in my eyes. So it's an almost uselessly subjective topic with a very bombastic title.

As opposed to other issues which, while opinionated, have some objective component. Like if you don't see how Oblivion has a setting and cast of characters, items and monsters that is more bland than Morrowind (and Skyrim, but less so), you must be some kind of space alien in dire need of a dictionary.

No. If I complain that Oblivion is a watered-down RPG with a derivative setting, it's based in facts that can be appreciated by all players.

If some minutiae of item placement messes up my RP style, I don't proclaim stuff about lofty heights, especially when I know that those lofty heights are precisely what half the forum objected to so strongly.

I can't tell if the OP is stating an opinion, or is trolling.

Lol. Everything is derivative so that's an invalid criticism. At least in oblivion npcs moved.

I don't know that I'd say any game has reached lofty heights just yet.

For me, Morrowind is a raw material. It lacks refinement, it needs refinement, but it is what it is, in its most natrual form. Aside from the animations, it's perfectly fine to PREFER this. (But if you like the normal walking animations, seek professional help. That stuff is just creepy)

Oblivion is kind of the product of overdoing the fix to the point of creating problems from the solutions. It *still* missed the wonky attribute system being a bad idea, it overdid level scaling, etc. The interface had its own regressions, but did some good work on bringing some things (such as using alchemy equipment) in line with sensible UI design. Overall, I have the most fun with this game for a number of reasons, but it boils down to spending more of my time playing than doing other things to aid playing.

Skyrim... nothing good will come of me talking about Skyrim. I last played in November 29th. Draw your own conclusions, understanding that I have not completed ANY questlines.

Those are opinions too. With a few minor adjustments, I.e. reducing the size of the font I like Oblivions menus the best. The attribute system is just fine.

Lofty?

Hur hur.

And we're all mammals, so you're a monkey!

Sorry dearie, but words have meanings. And since you're on the internet, you can look up these meanings.

Not sure why I'm responding to this non sequitur, but NPCs moved in Morrowind too. Only the shopkeepers stayed still, unlike in Oblivion where they moved (oh boy!) exactly twice a day to walk to and from their beds.
Somehow even Skyrim is filled with bandits that do nothing but stand around in their caves their whole lives. No improvement since 2002, really.