Is TESO not a theme park? Please elaborate as to how it isn't a theme park, because it pretty obviously is.

TESO is a theme park mmo, dont know what Zrk is on about :/

Yes there was not a single really good one the last few years I completely agree.

What I do not agree with is that there are tons of quality f2p mmos that are competing...

There actually are 3 atm (that can be qualified as quality products) thats rift, gw2 and planetside.

Gw2 has had very very few content upgrades and lots of issues during the time I played it (first year), I was pretty much through with everything they offered and there was nothing else to do, the pvp (due to culling) was hardly playable.

Rift if you dont want to grind for months on end you basically have to use the cash shop. The real content updates are also very very few (most updates are just cash shop things)

Planetside 2 is great I loved it though again substantial content updates where missing pretty much.

In the end if the 13€ give me "free" content and updates every 1.5 months that I do not have to buy in a cash shop then I think its perfectly valid and can compete with f2p/b2p titles where content really only comes every year or so.

The thread topic isn't "What's the best game in your opinion" or "Will ESO be the number one MMO of 2014". The thread topic is: Will Elder Scrolls Online succeed against other 2014 MMOs ? Both games are in beta. Both games are getting press reviews. You are suggesting that those numbers will be reversed once Wildstar decides to advertise more? Time will tell. I will believe it when I see it. Elder Scrolls is a well known world wide franchise with millions more fans than Wildstar will ever have. I am not saying that ESO is a better game or that it will even have more subscriptions. I am saying that it can and will succeed.

Wildstar looks very different from ESO, I think it plays very different too, far more traditional MMO style.

Everquest Next is F2P, we see how it works out, high chance its the typical cash grab while living on the name.

Problem with F2P is that you need 3-4 time the players as an sub to get in the same amount of money on average, however EQ-N probably does well.

Landmarks is an interesting concept, however as I understand its more of an CK, building stuff might be the coming thing of MMO but then building in the game.

Destiny is an shooter in an persistent world, a totally different game.

Main benefit of ESO is probably multiplatform and fan base/ setting.

in my humble opinion yes i think eso can succeed the graphics are fantastic if its anything like skyrim . so realistic the lore and story well it has enough to knot your brain into a pretzel and the world is soo non linear again if skyrim is the yardstick and eso is modified from that engine than i can only imagine .. as far as other games world of warcraft is old and tired it needs to be put to sleep .. everquest or everquest 2 is a decent game but as wow kinda tired .. rift gets boring after a while and neverwinter .. its free kinda sorta trust me free to play is never free .. i think as a subscription eso will do well for a while people eventually will reach the end game and depending on the end game content will either continue or get bored we shall see .. i just noticed someone trying to compare teso to wildstar i noticed wildstar is a ncsoft title .. as we say in new york fuhgetabout it wont even be close ncsoft and their cartooney looney style game wont hold a candle to eso i;ve played a lot of mmo.. and i cant mention about a few certain games because of nda .. hehe i wouldnt worry about wildstar and world of warcraft in my humble opinion is done with despite the 7 million or so farmers with subscriptions

I'm confident there's a mass of players that are just like me: absolutely hate monetizing simple game content/features for the all mighty instant cash grab

To say ESO will fail because of the sub is probably the worst statement made this decade. I've played virtually every f2p MMO that's come out in the past 5 or 6 years and every single one of them I've quit without spending a dime (well FireFall I did contribute cause that's an awesome f2p), yet I still happily pay 15/mo for WoW. Why? Because I playcreate my experience as opposed to I paycreate my experience.

And that is why there is a demand again for the subscription model. Because people are getting sick of the F2P model that has become mainstream.

They say you get access to all content, but that got turned on it's head the second they announced that there would be an in-game cash shop and that the Imperial race would be locked off to anyone who doesn't spend an extra $20. I get being a fan of the game and very optimistic about it despite these signs, but most people, myself included, see these sort of things for what they are, cheap EA-esque tactics. All the signs are here, a money-grab was never turned into an historic game. Temporarily fun, yes. Epic, no.

There's demand for sub games? I've never seen anyone actually want to pay a sub for a game (unless your favorite franchise launches an MMO with a sub fee, in which case sub fees become the best thing that could happen to a game ever).

because of the tonnes of places that aren't related to quests? after playing the same character in two betas I was still finding places I'd never seen or had any quest linked too by the end of the seconds, and that was just one "zone".

I don't see any better fantasy MMO's coming out in 2014. TESO is already very good. It's going to get better and better. Judging from all the new PvP videos I think it's going to be a huge draw.

Wildstar - sorry - I don't play cartoons no matter how good the game.

well for me TESO is the only MMO for 2014.

WIldstar I have no interest in WoW in space made by NCsoft, would have to pay me to play another NCsoft funded game after GW2

EQ-Landmark isn't really the MMO version I think so it doesn't count

WoD a time traveling expac to bring back all the heroes of the horde which are dead now in lore, seems like a run out of ideas thing, don't get me wrong I loved WoW for 7 years but redoing lore by time traveling were your actions means nothing seems odd.

that's all the MMOs I can think off or at least the big ones.

I can understand the mistrust and the imperial edition didnt help either.

But the general theory is you pay a monthly fee and get regular quality content updates every 2 or so months.

Compared to f2p titles quality content maybe every year but regular cash shop content...

I vastly prefer the sub fee model

Now if they can hold to their promise of updates every 6-8 weeks is another question of course but until proven otherwise this is what we must use to compare it to other payment models.

7.8 million people just in one game would disagree?

You have any idea how many people would be playing WoW if it was f2p? You have any idea how many of those 7.8 million actually want to be paying $15 a month? Using WoW as an example is a pretty bad practice in general. It's like measuring the success of every sci-fi movie that comes out to the success of Star Wars.

Imperial race, you mean the race which hasn't got it's own starting zone? Or linked to an alliance story, they are additional content to the basic game, mostly a visual enhancement to what you may personally desire

I don't think getting a CE bonus is a 'cash grab' and yeah - i'm happy to pay a sub, just like I took out a sub for Rift and SWTOR and LOTRO. I don't want to get into all that 'pfft - what's ￡8.99?' stuff and accept that some people can't afford it. But for millions of gamers ￡8.99 isn't a lot. IMHO it's actually pretty cheap, I was expecting to pay more.

I've played real 'cash shop' games like LOTRO and I hate the way it has become just a store with a game attached.

Gameplay elements removed and monetised.

Development costs kept to a minimum while expansions cost more than entire new games and deliver less and less for more and more.

Gameplay constantly dumbed down to keep the tide of ftp transients flowing through.

Being nickle and dimed to death at every turn.

End game replaced by endless, futile grinds.

Ferocious image managed forums.

Generally being treated with contempt by the company.

I'd pay double to keep TESO a serious game with developers focused on delivering whatever it takes to keep people subbing.

/signed

Besides, years back playing the WoW beta I had a good feeling about the coming success of the game, years later I had the same feeling while playing the TESO beta, I'm quite confident...

Oh? Well, I can say it'd be 7.799 million if it went f2p The game isn't worth monetizing and there'd be a ton LESS players playing. Oh you want to raid? Here's a raid token: $10/ea Oh you want more bags space? Here bag expand: $10/ea Multiply this times hundreds of simple game features/content that f2p games charge for.

WoW would collapse faster than flipping the light switch.

There is no competition really.

Eso is the ONLY mmorpg focused on proper area world pvp . The faction vs faction is a unique feat ( taken from daoc but who plays this game anywamore) that no other currently played mmorpg holds.

The graphics also are distinct differentiate form the cartoonish look most other mmorgps have adopted

The overall quality is superb , ive only seen that in wow all those many years , this is the first mmo since then to have such quality and a strong company behind them supporting.

There is a huge demand for the subscription model. We have grown weary of the F2P concept that has become the norm for the last decade. And here is why.

P2W cash shops.

Gigantic flashing icons on the UI that remind us constantly of the cash shops.

in game content such as lock boxes that remind us constantly of the cash shops.

Locked essentials such as bag space and bank space.

Buffs that can be purchased with a credit card.

Weapons and armor that can be purchased with a credit card.

Constant reminders at every corner about how much easier your life could be if you would just whip out the credit card.

An over abundance of immature brats.

Crappy game support.

Crappy content upgrades.

Believe it or not, many of us old gamers actually miss the subscription model. Once upon a time, F2P was a bonus and a sweet prospect. Now I dread even hearing it.

This is just my opinion of course, but trust me, I am not alone in this.

The only game that I feel comes even close to a good F2P model is Gw2. And that isn't F2P, it's B2P.

If this game goes F2P, I will dump it faster than you can say nose hair

Can you list some quality F2P games?

Curious cat want to know? That is outside of GW2. Note that many F2P games are old sub games who goes F2P, don't really qualify as the F2P tail is simply an way to earn more money and keep the game running.

I'm not saying the numbers will be reversed, they may or may not. I am saying the numbers show hits on news articles and discussions (which are more prevalent for TESO currently) and that it's likely, as it has in the past, to switch when new information comes out and Wildstar gets closer to release. You are stating those figures are showing how the game will sell which is a leap. Equally Elder Scrolls is a larger IP (that is true) however you must be aware that the prior games appeal to a different audience? Liking them is in no way an indicator of interest in this game.
I agree it will succeed, I'd be shocked if it didn't (almost all MMORPGs do), however as you pointed out the topic is about comparison to other releases.

EQNext won't be released in 2014 It'll more than likely feature some form of Freemium model when it does.

Landmark is scheduled to have some form of combat, though yes it is more of a minecraft style game.

I included Destiny as I think that it will have an impact on console sales, a large one too. Yes it's not a fantasy setting, though it does have MMO features and will not have a subscription fee this may make it seem like an attractive alternative to TESO for many on the fence (especially since the console release date is not far off from the Destiny launch date).

It's worth noting that despite some people hating the F2P model it is not unlikely that in the future TESO will switch to such a model. That in itself isn't a failure but rather a business decision to further maximise profits (when boxes are no longer selling as well the cash shop of a F2P title will bring in higher revenue). As Zaria mentioned higher quality F2P titles usually are those that used to be P2P, as releasing F2P comes with more risk due to lower guaranteed revenue (box sales).

FireFall is a great f2p game IMO.

Guild Wars 2, Planetside 2, Path of Exile, League of Legends....there are more (and even more on the horizon like Star Citizen), but these are the major examples in my mind. There are a lot of trashy f2p games that give f2p a bad name because they are full pay-to-win, but a quality f2p MMO in todays market will have more of a loyal playerbase than a quality p2p MMO.

This is another example of cheap trashy f2p games giving quality f2p games a bad name. F2p without the pay-to-win is much more preferable.

They get their own skill line and a free fast mount, I would hardly call that just a visual enhancement.