Until official DLC and player mods are released, Skyrim will always be more superior in terms of it's content. But I do feel FO4 factions, faction stories and side quests are somewhat lacking and linear at this point. Skyrim had over a dozen diverse factions with backstories going back to TES Arena. With the exception of the Civil War factions, there was a lot of room for overlap in joining these quests. Because you could side with the majority of these factions without penalty to your sandbox game play, the MQ, or other quests. Case in point: in FO4, you're extremely limited in your ability to do faction quests for the Railroad, BoS and Institute. Because membership in these is mandatory before the game will allow you to progress doing faction quests. And the further you progress in faction quests for say the Railroad, the more you undermine your PC ability to do faction quests for other factions (with the Institute in particular).

In contrast with Skyrim, there was FAR more flexibility in joining factions. Especially since some factions (like the TG and DB) complimented each other in terms of particular character builds (i.e. stealth, assassin/thief builds). And the same worked for dissimilar factions like the Mages Guild. So you could become the DB AND TG AND Mages Guildmasters while being a Vampire Lord who trying to advance in the Companions. And a sixually liberated priest or disciple of Mara, spreading the love of this Aedra to the denizens of Skyrim with the Temple Quests. Or at same time, be a valiant adventurer questing for a Guiness Book record number of arrows to the knee -- while solving the Dungeon and Daedric quests. There was a LOT vanilla content and quest lines outside of the MQ that kept people occupied before mods or official DLC ever started coming out TBH.

I don't feel the same way as of yet with FO4. Perhaps because I'm still playing a heavily modded TTW version of FO3 and NV. And alternating between Project Brasil. So I guess I'm spoiled for all those amazing FO3/NV mods like PN, AWOP, Craftmaster, Advanced Recon, AND all of Someguy's incredibly immersive mods. And official DLC like Gun Runner's Arsenal. Or small immersion touch mods like being able to smoke or allow you character to take a bath in showers/bathtubs (when dirty or injured/bloody). Or the need to eat regularly and so need to use the bathrooms/toilets you find around the wasteland because they now have modded stomachs and bladders.

So I feel this poll is somewhat premature. It's only fair to wait and see what Beth releases for the DLC. And what magic the modding community can perform to fill whatever gaps in content that Beth may have missed.

My primary critic is the horrible dialogue system, yes patching so you see the texts they say helped a lot but shows how much is just padding to get 4 options.

Second is lack of progress, forced quests was so popular in Skyrim so they had made most quests forced.

Yes this might be collateral damage of the dialogue system, its hard to put random quests into an 4 fixed dialog options.

Ulike FO3 most quests in FO4 is linear, yes we are used to that from TES, however TES has far more quest and an larger variety of quests from various groups.

Yes its plenty of good things in FO4 environment is an step up most of all vertically, enemy AI is better, crafting is excelent and the factions are decent,

100% this pretty much. I still have yet to finish the MQ with one of my 2 chars. The one I'm currently playing is female (Sean's mother) who joined the Institute because she's coldly anolytical, high intelligence, and very cynical towards life in pre-war Commonwealth. Those personality traits have served her well in the current Commonwealth. So far, her maternal instincts have logically guided her toward the Institute. The 2nd char is a male char (Sean's father) who will join the BoS and be RR friendly based on his military background.

But regardless of which character I play (I swap between these two characters often) I still feel a sense of completeness lacking in the game. It doesn't feel the same way it did when I played FO3 and NV. And especially after merging the 2 wastelands to play both games using TTW. But then again, this is because CK and the official DLC haven't been released yet.

Indeed.

Two very good points. There's definitely not the same wow factor to Fallout than there was to Skyrim. And yes, the forums are much less busy than they were back then. Although maybe the fact that there were more bugs in Skyrim on release added to forum trafic I remember when they introduced the "no magic resistance" bug through a patch. Fun times those were on the forum...

It's certainly a much better game than a 1/10 but it doesn't deserve a 10/10 either. There are far too many issues, from insanely long loading times to gamebreaking bugs to a lot of things unstatisfying with the gameplay itself.

I feel that an average user score, when there are enough data points, would do a good job in levelling those kinds of scores out so that we end up with a good representation of what the average player really feels. That's the good thing about an average, it tends to iron out the extremes.

Looking at the gaming subforums on for example reddit, there are a lot of really wel written and thoughtful reviews which detail exactly what is unstatisfying about the game. Most of those use examples to explain why they have a problem with the overall shallowness and railroading, the too few and far between quest choices, the dialogue wheel where every choice usually leads to the same result, the way that character progession doesn't really unlock or close off content. The last one is what I find most detrimental.

In previous Fallout games there were dialogue choices and quest branches which opened up with certain perks, skill levels or attribute levels. In FO4 this is noticably absent. And that is what, in my opinion, makes it an inferior Fallout game. Fallout used to be an RPG where the player could, through character building, experience a radically different playthrough of the game. In FO4 that ability has been sacrificed under the philosophy that all players must be able to experience everything the game has to offer in a single playthrough no matter what.

Skyrim suffered from this philosophy also, making it a shallow RPG but FO4 takes it a step further still. The quest for maximum accessibilty has also led to maximum blandness. There just is no point to most of the choices the player makes, since they will never lead to anything fundamentally changing. Blow up a faction and kill everyone inside? The Minutemen are very dissapointed, that is not how we do things around here. By the way, this settlement needs your help.

I hope that with future games Bethesda will go back to their roots of making great open-world RPG's where people can play around in for years instead of trying to appeal to the lowest common denominator. As I see it with FO4 they have gone over the limit of what removing RPG elements and removing meaningful choices has for effect on a game if said game should still be considered a masterpiece. There comes a point where all the removal just leads to a bland and uninteresting game and in my opinion that point has been reached with FO4.

It's a 5 or 6 out of 10 as I see it and I would like future games to be an 8 or 9 again. I know they can do that, they made such games before.

Well, at least for me it won't. Previous Murder Hobo Adventures, both of the Fantasy and Sci-Fi branches, have served for a long time as first person dungeon crawlers with light RPG elements for me. In this one however the RPG elements are too light, and the "My baby! My baby!" plot is too pervasive.

So, let's just say that the mods will have to be pretty darn impressive for me to reinstall this one, and considering what's available for New Vegas and Vikings vs. Dragons, it won't easy to impress me.


Yes, i tend to think that the 0/10 and 10/10 nullify each other too. Unless there is significantly more of one than the other. And if there is, that too tells something.


Though it was the same in the previous game, blowing up a town makes dad very, very disappointed. But screw that, let's get back to work.

One Reason because Skyrim got more Bugs is for me sure now. More Content means also more Problems. Skyrim had many more unique NPC's, Dialogs, Quests and so, more Features. No wonder Fallout has less Problems and ofcourse Bethesda may learned something from Skyrim and fixed already some Issues while they develope Fallout. We will see how it goes with the next Elder Scrolls. Will it have less Bugs than Skyrim or the same Amount? I mean every Game has Performance Problems, i dont count them in any Way. Fallout has/had just a few Quests Bugs?

When exactly did Skyrim get its official mod tools after release? Perhaps the reason we have yet to get the GECK could have to do with some sort of different approach Bethesda is taking with mods this time around. There was speculation that the new Bethesda.net site was also going to be this whole hub for Fallout 4 mods, which may be the planned means to get consoles mod access.

Skyrim did not really stand the test of time at all unlike it's two predecessors. If you are talking about mods, nearly any open world game could increase its longevity if you mod the [censored] out of it the way you could a Bethesda game.

Yea lets compare a game that's been out for over 4 years to a game that's been out a little over two months....

February 2012, so 3 months after release. So it will probably be the same this time.

Those two "little" things did end up killing a lot of roleplayability. Just waiting for the mods, there's already one that mutes the voice, and another that changes the dialog wheel. Just need a last one that stops everyone and their dog talking about your past.

As for the test of time, well I'm going to wait for the mods to see.

Did that happen like that? Interesting, I didn't know, thanks. I never chose to blow up Megaton.

We got the Creation Kit in February, 2012. It was released in a beta version a few weeks before that, though, to selected members of the modding community. I have no idea if they plan to do the same thing with Fallout 4.

EDIT: ninja'd

Well Todd Howard stated in a few Interviews that the release was 10.11.2015 for the game, and the kit would be out a few months later. So i am guessing Feb again.

Also there is alot of mods on Nexus already, the community is already huge. Over 2 million copies sold on PC alone. Question is rather how the DLC will be and what can be done going forward on the modding side. Personally i don't use that many mods, i find the games to be interesting without.

Same for me, the set protagonist and the voice kill my interest for a second playthrough. The first playthrough is cool, though, I have clocked about 60 hours and didn't meet all the factions yet.

Those Sales happend after a few Days they are a little indicator how a Game can goes but it dont must be like. But Fallout has the same Problem without Mods, only the real Fanbase will stay behind this. In Skyrim you had much to do and much to explore its kinda lacking in Fallout 4. Because you cant compare the Content of both Games. Fallout already lost that. Sad Thing. I wish there would be more in the Vanilla Game. Without Mods i never played Skyrim so much but ofcourse longer than Vanilla Fallout, and thats just about the Amount of Content.

I don't think so, FO4 is a good game and surely will have its strong following many years from now, but not on Skyrim level. SKyrim is a cult game, a milestone, and I doubt even TES 6 can match its mass appeal and its sales. I think the huge popular success of Skyrim is a one time wonder and is due to the combination of vikings and dragons. They can't possibly come up with anything more spectacular and commercial than dragons and vikings to top Skyrim.

Bethesda's games are the only singleplayer titles that can attract as large a user base over as large period of time as popular multiplayer games. Steam's most played games are stuff like Team Fortress 2, Counter Strike and...Skyrim.

I know it will stand the test of time for me, I never plan to stop playing my character, just like all the rest. Stuff like the voiced protagonist and the dialogue wheel may be a deal breaker for some people, I know they lessen the experience for me, but underneath it all its still Bethesda, and its going to have as lasting a legacy as it has the other two times this decade with Skyrim in 2011 and New Vegas in 2010.

This. This is what I feel made Skyrim so epic and the best GOTY next to MW. It's all about the sandbox potential which extends the shelf life aka replayability of the game.

But in addition to this, the map design added an extra layer of immersive feeling because of it's design. Although predominantly mountainous, Skyrim's map terrain had a wide range of variation in its elevation. So seasonal climates were very varied all around the map. This is because the Throat of the World mountain peak feature basically dominates the map. So it forced your PC to really spend several game hours (on foot or horse back) traveling around and/or up the mountain. These climate changes were that more immersive with Chesko's Frostfall and Isoku's Wet and Cold which also modified NPC behavior relative to the climate they were in. Simple travel from the western or eastern side of the map was made challenging ifusing other environmental and realism mods. Numerous critter and NPC mods (e.g. Immersive Patrols), and RPing mods like Hunterborn added hostile/neutral wildlife & NPCs to your PC travels on the roads and wilderness. So if travelling the SE route through Ivarstead to get to Riften from Whiterun, a host of random NPCs, critters and altitude/climate changes could make your trip very challenging.

The varying terrain elevation in Skyrim also introduced various climates. From Falkenwreath's spring time conifer rain forest, to Riften and Solitude's foggy coastal climates, to Whiterun's woody fall/autumn climate (Vurt's Flora Overhaul mod), to Markarth's flatter colder and more barren tundra like terrain. All of these hold climates were clearly different from the artic winter marine climates which Winterhold and Windhelm always had.

But this level of immersion and sandbox was possible through environment enhancing mods like Vurt's Floral overhaul, CoT, Critter mods like Animallica/Bugs 101, sandbox mods like Chesko's Art of the Catch, home mods that let you be a humble farmer to raise/sell crops at cities in Skyrim, trading merchant etc etc. The list is endless.

In contrast, FO4 map is predominantly flat terrain, so it's relatively easy to travel around the map in a short amount of game time. For me, this kills game immersion. Slinking around and hiding in terrain/vegetation is virtually impossible while outside, because forests, valleys, rock outcropping/mountains etc don't exist on the FO4 map. So enemy NPCs can spot your PC coming from a light year if they're perception is high enough. Or if they happen to be TWD styled zombie NPCs which reanimate the moment your char sneaks into a certain radius. Unlike Skyrim, it feels like my PC walks a dozen feet or so before being attacked by another elastic band leveled hostile NPC. That just so happened to be waiting around in that area to attack my PC. So the AI encounters don't feel real or immersive at all. I also feel that Fallout is more about exploration than questing IMO. So the amount of sandbox game play is somewhat limited. Also the flat terrain means minor elevation changes. Which means like of seasonal variation. While "seasons" in FO4 are limited, they're somewhat predictable --even with weather mods. And this depends on what part of the map you venture to. Outside the permanent rad storms of the Glowing Sea area, you'll get the "other" weather/climate variety i.e. predominantly sunny with some rain and minor fog/haze. But even tweaking the sunny vanilla weather with climate mods doesn't match the feeling of immersion Skyrim provided.

Perhaps this is because the Commonwealth map-- unlike Skyrim's map-- was more designed for exploration? vs. sandbox RPing? More designed for FPS style combat than for Skyrim's pro questing feel? Because FO4 is not as varied in its elevation, terrain, and climate the way Skyrim was. These features add to the level of gaming immersion and sandbox RPing. So FO4 map is more designed for one time exploration in FPS style v. reply sandbox value which Skyrim provided IMO. Even the starting vault in FO4 limits your character creation ability. Your PC path is locked in from the moment you exit character creation. You're forcibly guided through the prewar scenarios, have to endure the same linear escape quest from 111. And regardless of which faction you immediately run off to join after being dumped outside the vault, the linearity of the side quests converge to the same result. They all force you toward completing the MQ the farther you progress in the game. The only sandbox component so far is the Settler feature. But while this can only improve with time, the sandbox feature is somewhat limited i.e. Short of your imagination, you can't RP a farmer, merchant, or hunter the way you could in Skyrim. Not without the addition of DLC or modded content first.

Regardless, while a significant improvement over it's predecessors, FO4 leaves me with the feeling that it's "unfinished". But perhaps this is what Beth had intended all along---so they could introduce more interesting and filling content down the road. At least I hope this is what they intend to do with the seasonal pass this year.

Uh no, Bethesda released the 20 million sales statistics for Skyrim at around 2014 which is about 3 years after the release of the game. Judging by Fallout 4's current sales, I wouldn't be surprised if in several more years it will sell at least twice as much as Skyrim.

I don't really care for how much more boring "collect X item or kill X person" generic quest that Skyrim has over Fallout 4. Exploration and world interaction was far better and much more fun in Fallout 4 in my opinion and got bored of exploring the same old Draugr ruin passed the second time or interacting with some of the shallowest and most horribly voice-acted characters I've seen in an open world game, except for Ulfric, he's the only character in Skyrim with any depth at all.

I only wish that Bethesda could go back to the depth that was in Morrowind with the quest quality of Oblivions with whatever innovation gaming brings in the next TES game, instead of these stupid MMO-like quests trends and shallowness that Skyrim started. Ah Who am I kidding? Even Runescape has quests that are better than Skyrims.

This game is quite a niche by itself, so yeah, I guess it will stand the test of time. Not for me though, I prefer to replay Skyrim or Morrowind... or something else from my huge backlog.

This. Skyrim just feels so much more EPIC!

See. Where you dislike the need to choose a faction in fallout and perfer the ability to play all factions, I hated that in Skyrim I could become a wear wolf mercenary, master of The thrieves guild, head of an assassin organization, and the grand wizard of all Skyrim. It just seemed rediculous to me. Granted I didn't have to join them all, which I didn't, but choosing one had no real weight to it in the game world other than opening up another series of quests. In fallout 4 going all out for the BOS means the destruction of two other factions.

Ahh yea i see it just right now in the Wiki, my bad.

The Radiant Quests as they are rigth now are horrible. Your getting from the same NPC the same Quest and most Time always to the same Dungeon, and you also do the same got to x and kill y Quests like in skyrim. The Reason why i prefer Skyrim here is that you here Different Voices/texts and also Dungeon/Locations. In Skyrim when you got send by an NPC to an Radiant Quest it could be all over the Map, this Feature is totally missing here. This makes the World much more alive in the feeling. The repitive Radiant Quests from Fallout make it more feeling like a stupidity Videogame. What do you prefer, i mean we talk about long Lifespan. After you made the End of an Faction you choosed you have nothing left so far, except those Radiants. In this Forum are many Threads about this Problem.

Fallout gets the Feeling of being repitive just to fast. I mean every Game gets this Status after some Time but getting it to fast can break the Neck of it. I think we see it here, and i just dont know why Bethesda is doing a less good Job in that Point.