Totally forgot about that. I cringed when I saw that stupid gun.


Tower defense?

Since I've been here I've seen Morrowind get hate, I've seen Oblivion get hate, I've seen Fallout 3 get hate and I've seen Skyrim get hate. When Fallout 4 comes out I will be seeing Fallout 4 get hate. As sesom says, there is not much to "believe."

Which makes me think they are made essential not just because people reload, but because they are somehow needed later in the game and Bethesda didn't want to write consequences for them being killed.

All games get hate. How does any of this have anything to do with the developer?

To defend them, sometimes it's practically impossible to write consequences so that they make sense and the story continues on. I mean, what would happen if you killed the Overseer in the beginning or middle of Fallout 1? I can't imagine it being possible since he's just too important a character to be substituted by anyone else. Then again I've never tried it, but I still can't imagine it. The same with the people of Arroyo. They're an important part of the story, if you genocide them, how can the event with the Enclave even happen?

Plenty of ways. Why did you need to save the vault anyway? By the end of the game, there was no reason to go back there at all.

Oh look a criticism of Fallout 1^ (gasp)

Woah, calm down, slick. No doubt there are some questionable changes made with Fallout 4, but nothing is going to be worse than the burned game.

Even then, I'd like to hear more details on these changes and any other changes made, and at least play the game before jumping to that conclusion.

Oh please. I'm not trying to diss Fallout 1, that's my favorite game in the series, possibly my favorite game ever. Still, can you kill the Overseer? Even if you can, I don't think you should be able to. The ending of being exiled, no matter what, is half of what makes the game so rewarding.

This is part of a pattern.

Morrowind came out - "They changed it! It's casual and Daggerfall's better!"

Oblivion came out - "They changed it! It's casual and Morrowind's better!"

Skyrim came out - "They changed it! It's casual and Oblivion's better!"

Fallout 4 is coming out - "They changed it! It's casual and Fallout 3 and NV are better!"

I predict that when Fallout 5 will come out, people will praise Fallout 4 for actually being good and say "They changed it! It's casual and Fallout 4's better!". Mark my words.

"WIth every new detail I find, I

WHat are these "more details" you keep talking about? All we have seen is one trailer, and the E3 presentation, which showed less than a fraction of the tutorial, and a bunch of random violence clips.

I've been a fan of the franchise since I was a kid, and I honestly don't see any reason for Fallout 4 to be getting this much hate. I'll admit that Fallout 3 could have been a lot better. But for a first attempt, I'd say it was pretty darn good. And again. It was their first fallout game. I think they can be forgiven for a few experiments.

What I saw on E3 was amazing. And right now all these disaster prophecies are based entirely on assumptions and personal bias.

duplicated

I wasn't implying you were dissing Fallout 1. That little arrow was pointing at my comment because some people around here seem to think anyone who dislikes Fallout 3 can't find faults in the originals.

Anyway, I stand by what I said. It may not be the best ending to the game but it could have been a possible outcome.

After the main E3 show, Todd Howard did some interviews. Also there were a lot of tiny details that irked me.

I've yet to see anyone saying "Fallout 4 svcks! Fallout 3 was better!" and I doubt you'll ever hear it from the people who dislike Fallout 3.

s

Not now, but when Fallout 4 will be released, there will be people who will say Fallout 3 and NV is better.

Me? I will most likely say Fallout 4 is different, but not necessarily better than any Fallout game. That's why I don't have a particular favorite.

Well, that makes no sense to me. There are people from this forum (including me) that like both New Vegas and Fallout 1. The release date didn't somehow change their opinion of the past games.

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Anyway, its 04:00 and I'm going to bed.

People hate change... simple as that.. if something is changed in the minds of these people it is automatically bad... but if those people were in charge of the world we would never even have computers.. or the internet... because change is never good for these people... litterally nothing outside of releasing the EXACT same game would please them as any minor change would give them something to complain about... its best to just ignore those people and believe what you believe and not let them bring you or the game down.

To each his own. I think your reasoning is perfectly valid, but here are my thoughts on why I disagree with your points.

1. Frankly, I'm not sure whether this will be a problem or not, but the facts are that we don't know enough. What if the dialogue in the E3 demo just happened to have 4 options. Maybe other conversations will have more than 4 options. Also, one of the responses to Codworth's query about food in the demo was yellow. Perhaps SPECIAL/skills still play a role in dialog, with this option possibly being a Perception check. It'll look different and will surely be subject to modding, but I think that the old Fallout dialogue is still relatively intact.

2. Skills definitely appear to be gone. Lack of info persists with this too, but it appears that the skills no longer have point values, but ranks instead. This is seen in the crafting part where a weapon mod requires Science: Rank 2 to craft. I like the idea because Bethesda is streamlining the skills in a realistic way. Instead of using an abstract point system, you level up your skills by using them. Rank up Guns by shooting people and rank up Lockpicking by lockpicking. If they do it right, it will be hard to play previous Fallout games without this system.

3. I don't think this is an issue. Fallout: New Vegas had unkillable companions and Fallout 3 had plenty of story-related NPCs that couldn't be killed. When companions died in FO3, I would reload regardless of the current situations so this change simply removes that step. This might break immersion for some people, but in this case it stops me from breaking my immersion.

4. The jetpack seems to run on a fuel system, so something tells me that, given the scarcity of fuel in the Fallout universe, being able to fly will be a rare commodity. But if fuel is not conserved and can be found practically anywhere, then I'm behind you 100%.

5. Not sure exactly what you are talking about here. They made the combat better by switching to an upgraded engine and VATS no longer lets you pause on demand and forces you to think on your feet.

I'll wait until I actually put a few days into the game.

People will always [censored] about anything.

This is unfortunately true. I experienced it quite heavy myself when I first came to the Morrowind section having played Oblivion...

Ditto with me and Fallout 3.

In the minds of a tiny minority of Fallout and RPG purists, it's already considered a 'burned game' even before it's played. But it will undoubtedly be a huge success with gamers at large. I expect it to do better than Fallout 3. It probably won't do as well as Skyrim simply because Skyrim came at the end of the last console cycle when the number of last gen consoles in potential players homes was at it's greatest point while Fallout 4 is being released early in the current gen cycle at a time when far fewer people have the appropriate hardware to run the game in their homes.

Exactly. I would add to this that Sid Meier once said that more isnt always better. I raged when they took out tech trading in civ V but I got used to it. Yes it had always been a part of the civ games but it made you play differently.

Having 7 options in dialogue is great but when 3 don't go anywhere whats the point? Especially if the guy has an annoying voice.

Change is only good when it makes things better. But better is a relative term. I think we just have to give them a chance.

It is trending in that direction. I have held off pre-ordering. Will still buy and enjoy the heck out of it, unless the reviews are truly terrible.

I'm highly optimistic even with my negatives: voiced protagonist, no skills, Mass Effect dialogue wheel. I still am dying to get my hands on it midnight release. People really need to remember that you can't really form a full opinion until you play it in November. I just want to roll with my Enclave Power Armor.

Except that the unkillable companions in FNV were a choice that could be turned off or on.