Will giants become accepted citizens in future games?

Post » Mon Aug 11, 2014 3:01 am

WARNING: LONG POST AHEAD!

In Skyrim, giants are treated as sub-human savages. Even those who don't go around harassing giants (e.g. for their giants' toes, and for their mammoth souls) still view them as inherently inferior to the more "civilized" races of Tamriel.

And it's hard to argue with those people. Giants are very, very primitive in their technology, and they don't seem to have a fully developed language, either; instead opting to communicate primarily with body language, e.g. waiving their clubs around. Shades of cavemen in the real world.

But then again, when you think about it... isn't that exactly how the Orcs started out?

In Arena, Orcs were nothing but monsters, much likes ogres and trolls in the more recent games.

Everyone assumes that this change was made, in more recent games, solely for the sake of gameplay, without much concern for lore consistentcy. However, this is actually not the case. The Orcs actually had a long and eventful journey to being accepted as full fledged citizens of the Empire, but you have to have followed the entire Elder Scrolls franchise in order to pick up on that. It's quite impressive, when you think about it: That Bethesda has managed to be so consistent in its lore.

If you read the Skyrim heavy armor skill book "Orsinium and the Orcs" (and I mean... actually READ the book, not just pick it up, get its skill-up, and put it back down again), you will see that, almost immediately after the Imperial Simulacrum (the main quest in Arena), an Orc came along and challenged a Breton's claim to a parcel of land. The Breton thought this was stupid; he likened the court case to him being sued by a pig or slaughterfish.

But the Judge didn't care. All that mattered, as far as the law was concerned, was whether or not he had the papers.

So they agreed to resolve the dispute with a duel, which the Orc - one Gortwog gro-Nagorm by name - would go on to win. He would name the new city-state "Orsinium."

This happened almost immediately after the Imperial Simulacrum, and indeed, in Daggerfall, the main quesltine has you visiting Orsinium and meeting with King Gortwog in the flesh. The quest is called "Orcish Treaty," and although you never get to see the documents you're delivering, the title of the quest should give you an indication of what your courier duties are about.

It was not until Morrowind that Orcs became a playable race. However, given the extensive lore I've just recited, I'm hesitant to call that a "gameplay choice" on Bethesda part (much like the introduction of the Imperial race), and a lot more inclined to call it a calculated choice based on lore, where the Orcs scraqed and picked to get their equality.

So basically, the Orcs experienced a reversal of the Snow Elves' backstory. Whereas the falmer were a once proud race who were reduced to bloodthirsty savages, the Orcs started out as mere axe-wielding savages who slowly became civilized in their own, brutish way.

I wonder... doesn't this seem awfully familiar? The giants of Skyrim seem to be set up with almost EXACTLY the same backstory! Primitive creatures, generally thought of as sub-human, and often hunted just for sport!

However, the giants still seem to have all the pillars of a civilization. Simple, mind you, but the pillars are still present.

1. First, they herd mammoths. Note, the first - and most fundamental - pillar of civilization: Agriculture!

2. They are very territorial. In other words, they have a strong sense of land ownership. Note the second pillar of civilization: A code of law.

3. They will fight alongside one another if another giant from their tribe is under attack. This exhibits clear organization, which is a prerequisite to the third pillar of civilization: Heirarchy, and later, government.

4. You can occassionally see farmers bringing oddly-dressed cows to a giant's camp as an offering to them. This seems an awful lot like the fourth pillar of civilization: Religion.

5. Also, why are these farms offering anything to giants? Is it so that the giants don't ransack their farms? Well, while that may be outright extortion on the giants' part, morality aside, it nevertheless provides evidence of the fifth pillar of civilization: An economy. Not an economy based around currency, mind you, but an economy nonetheless.

and finally,

6. Those strange marks on the cows, that make them worthy of an offering. Clearly, they mean something to the giants they're being offered to. So, this give us the sixth, and final, pillar of civilizaiton: A system of writing.

So, it definitely seems as if the foundation is there, for the giants to, in later games, be accepted as full fledged citizens of the Empire.

Thoughts?

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Scott
 
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Post » Mon Aug 11, 2014 3:43 pm

"Giants are a common problem in the Pale. The Empire always demanded I leave them be, but the Empire isn't here now." Skald the Elder

They might already have some protection. Either that or the Empire just doesn't want Nords to piss them off.

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Tamara Primo
 
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Post » Mon Aug 11, 2014 8:22 am

Like I said... giants are sometimes hunted just for sport (at least, they are currently).

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Claire Jackson
 
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Post » Mon Aug 11, 2014 1:59 pm

In that case they're being hunted as pests, not for sport. Crows are relatively intelligent creatures, but one can't negotiate with them over land or food rights so farmers shoot them. Anyway my point was that maybe the Empire tells people to leave giants alone because they think giants deserve rights. People studied their language in Daggerfall.

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Dorian Cozens
 
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Post » Mon Aug 11, 2014 11:06 am

Is there even any evidence of giants outside Skyrim?

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Pants
 
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Post » Mon Aug 11, 2014 2:05 pm

So, you're agreeing with me that Bethesda could easily be setting them up to become full-fledged citizens?

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Brooks Hardison
 
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Post » Mon Aug 11, 2014 5:23 am

Yes, they were common enemies in Daggerfall.

And like QuirkyUsername pointed out, there were some scholars in daggerfall who studied the giant language.

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carla
 
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Post » Mon Aug 11, 2014 7:23 am

That would be very interesting. If we are eventually going to get more races, Giants or more likely, Half-Giants as seen in ESO, could be candidates. Giants I think would be a welcome addition to the Empire. I could imagine them founding larger settlements perhaps, maybe in High Rock, as there are also giants there, but there isn't as much land to herd mammoths.

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maria Dwyer
 
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