It's something that comes to mind. Is iplay going to pay attention to the demand for linux and osx playability of games? Although iplay is only a game publisher do they suggest for the game developers subtley or directly about stuff they want to happen?

The situation today for games is much different than it was 9 years ago. 9 years ago having windows only games was just the way it was. But, today with the increase in use of alternative operating systems; it's quite obvious to see that the gaming situation for players and developers today is very different.

I only say this because linux has replaced windows as my desktop os. While the WINE project for linux is very good, it doesn't do everything. The need for cross platform software is very dire. Whether that actually comes from programs that are universal on all operating systems with python and java, to separate projects for porting a program to different operating systems. Basically porting is in high demand today.

Right now, gaming on my laptop is a very interesting situation. So far for an alternative operating system user like me, my situation is as follows. I use WINE the free windows implementation compatibility layer for linux (wine stands for wine is not an emulator) currently for orange box and quake 2. I run quake 4 with id softwares provided linux executables, and i also play ut 2004 with linux executables as well. About half my games run natively in linux, while orange box can't (but runs fine with wine), and quake 2 has linux executables...it was just easier to run quake 2 through wine since it's so old, and i didn't want to go through the trouble of setting it up with it's linux executables. I also run fs2 open with linux executables (the only reason it's cross platform is because volition released the source code so developers on their own time decided to make a linux executable of fs2 for linux for fun).

With iplay back, it makes me curious about the future of the games that they publish. I definitely think they should consider this issue.

Linux has a market share of less than one percent. OS X has about 10 to 12 percent. To support them, gamesas would need to base their games on OpenGL. Now to create XBox games you need to use DirectX. The XBox currently is the best selling (and not just imo) best supported game console out there (the Wii doesn't seem so suitable for gamesas's lineup of games). So while I hope gamesas will go for OpenGL, I doubt it.

Go figure your chances for hardware platforms that do not support DirectX.

Ofc this is just speculation.

It would be interesting to hear something about this from gamesas officials.
Descent 1 & 2 for Windows, OS X & Linux
Only a dead troll is a good troll.

The more games people can't play = the more games that won't be bought.

What about multiple 3d api compatibility? My good old classic unreal tournament lets you choose from everything under the sun, glide, opengl, and directx. Other games are like this too, but not all of course. Unfortunately it's going to be up for the developers in the end for ports. Of course iplay pushing this knowledge along would help.

Cross platform is the way of the future. At least this isn't like turning the beast broadcom over on it's belly so they make linux drivers for their hardware. You figure they'd be happy that more people would be able to use their hardware on other platforms with ease (it's so silly, what would that do? increase confidence in the products a company makes. no way! this ideal is ludicrous ).

Yeah i get your point. Market share explains that MS is everything right now, and alternate platforms slowly on the rise. Market share doesn't explain the whole situation though. Market share for linux is most likely reporting results for redhat and suse linux. The vast majority of linux out there which is also the most used linux is linuxes like debian, opensuse, pclinuxos, ubuntu, mandriva, which also encompasses all of the smaller distributions out there. The other linuxes are free and don't require registration. In effect this makes it impossible and pointless to try to ascertain any actual information about linux from market share percentage. In other words, linux is a much bigger presence than what market share says.

Even still, the demand for directx is still out there. But, i'm not talking about console games here, just computer gaming. Even still, directx applies here, but no where near as much as consoles, and even directx conformance for console games is not as dire either. Most development studios if not all that create cross platform games will have some form of middleware that sits between the actual game and the rendering API. This makes it so that the middleware will be adapted to a certain API on a console. Pretty much encompasses opengl to direct3d and direct3d to opengl wrappers.

It's all about the question whether a few more users justify the extra investment.
Descent 1 & 2 for Windows, OS X & Linux
Only a dead troll is a good troll.

The smartest thing to do is support the Wine project in every way we can.

Bold: *cough*
hardware
http://vgchartz.com/
http://www.engadget.com/2008/07/18/npd-wii-usurps-xbox-360-as-best-selling-us-game-console/
software
http://www.gamedaily.com/articles/news/npd-wii-thirdparty-games-really-do-sell/?biz=1
*cough* pardon? what was that? :p I like facts personaly

Underline: I would say your incorrect. What I would say is that the Wii is open for PC style games. It's got a pointer, PC has a pointer. Wii has no PC pointer style games. Thus subject to inacurate assumption. FPS don't count since they have always been a techinical showcase of gaming. Which Wii controls better anyway if you like Pointer input. We also don't know what's in the pipeline. Keep in mind that EWJ1&2, Clayfigher are coming out through VC. I could be pretty happy playing FO4 on my Wii.

Italic: extremly important factor. CT is an awesome designer. Dungeon Siege was an amazing engine. Looking into how everything worked was fasinitating. I wanted to work with it alot, but it was a very deep dive to make some of the better stuff. I never played his RTS since it over shot my computer specs. Both pretty much are dependent on DX. FO 1 & 2 are DX. theres no reason why the company and the designers are going to go OGl. Which while nice and cross platform has fallen behind DX in capabilities.

Best selling is not best sold. The XBox is catching up, and the Wii is not up to scratch for high quality video games. It's video hardware is too weak. The XBox is the only logical choice for a game like Descent, unless you are willing to sacrifice a lot of visual quality (and probably game play, which is storage space dependant). Price/performance wise the XBox to me looks like the most attractive console atm.

The Wii's target market is the casual gamer. Descent is not exactly a game for casual gamers.
Descent 1 & 2 for Windows, OS X & Linux
Only a dead troll is a good troll.

Well I'm not going to argue horsepower. It's moot. The developers are PC/DX friendly and thus in the end will not appear on any system that doesn't run DX. Unless it's an exception system like DS or PS2. So no cross platforms

and no the 360 is not catching up. If you check the weekly back logs comparing sales. The Wii generaly double the sales of both the 360 and PS3 combined. That's why I provided the link.
http://www.vgchartz.com/hwcomps.php?weekly=1

So your telling me that the original Descent release on a handfull of disketts was a crappy game because of space storage? your saying that the Wii that uses DVD9 storage medium is inferior to the 360 DVD9 storage medium? both storing at about 8-9gb?

Hmm dual anolog or anolog and pointer? What was descent controlls again. Digital + pointer. Seems like Descent would translate better over to the Wii(anolog:anolog + pointer:anolog, nunchuck + wiimote combo). With a much larger customer base it's the most logical choice. Graphics dont' sell games. PS2 and DS prove that. Actually World of Warcraft proves that too. The power and control argument is passay. The 360 is a good machine and deserves games.

If you want a better argument. There is this one. Western games typiclly sell better on the 360. GTA4, Rock Band. 360 has a better front loaded sell, but doesn't have the legs. Guitar Hero 3.

How about I top one better. Why not both? or all 3? Why does it have to be 1 console? realisicly console developement will be either on the Wii becuase of it has 47.2 of the console market out there or it will be on the 360 due to ease of PC developement.

The world for DX engineering isn't as evil as it sounds. Developers do make heavy use of 3d api wrappers (console games too). That's how the wine project works for DX in linux. It has dx9 (dx10 coming soon) capability, but everything in wine DX based goes through a d3d to opengl wrapper. That's what makes it possible to play hl2 on my linux rig.

I'd have to say that descent on a wii would be much more fun. Play resident evil 4 remade for the wii is a hell of a lot better than resident evil 4 for ps2.

Actually I have used Wine a number of times. I even found that WoW runs 100% through Wine. I also believe that Cedega has an api out for OSX to cover Windows/DX coding. Even so I don't think it's so popular to use. Probably why we don't see alot of multi plat computer games. Personally I would love to see the barriers brought down between all the OS and consoles. That's why I'm big on Java even though I learned C/C++ first.

Anyways i'm getting to carried away on the console thing. Wii is selling better than 360. Western games do better on 360. Consoles are moot at this point. Let's just see what the future holds.

I very much doubt that they will build their games to support Linux. It'd be a moot point to do so in any case, since most Linux (which is free) gamers dual-boot on Windows. Hardly ideal, but its marginal market share just isn't worth the development effort.

The same cannot be said for the Mac, however. The Mac's gaining popularity as a mainstream platform these days, and if they can make their games with OpenGL, then there's no reason not to support OSX. An original gamesas fan, also known as Sol Invictus and Exitium. Currently running Hellforge, an original Diablo III community.

Agreed.

Linux is also gaining popularity too. Really it would not be moot to support linux. You say that and then you agree that macosx needs support too. Inexperienced linux users dual boot.

Because linux is free is not worth the development time? Even though millions use it around the globe already and that number is rising. I think the development is necessary, right now everything is windows vista, linux, and macosx (3 mature ose's). This is completely different from saying everything is win98, macos9, and ibm os/2 (it was like this in 1999).

Anyway, microsoft is finding out how important it is to consider linux. Linux development has spurred microsoft to start up codeplex (the ms sourceforge wannabe), and microsoft is changing their flagship os to be more linux like...starting from vista on into the future.

Jayderyu. Cedega is actually wine. In fact you want to use wine and not cedega. Cedega is the wine that costs money (from a code fork many a year ago). Wine has since changed their license so no one can fork the code so easily like cedega did. Cedega is the same thing as wine (except wine is free). Also wine is better, wine is where all the actual development for wine happens and not cedega, cedega really is quite half ass. But, just as much as cedega is for macosx, wine is also for macosx. So basically, that d3d to opengl wrapper i spoke of that wine has and uses for playing d3d games in linux, cedega has the exact same wrapper (and now you know where it came from).

In other words since people haven't been touching on it yet d3d to opengl wrapper = rendering your d3d games in opengl. Consoles make heavy use of wrappers as well. It's what helps out with porting games to other consoles. There's many wrappers out there, d3d to opengl, opengl to d3d, glide to opengl, etc...

Actualy there is a unspoken elements so far.

Much of the numbers of Windows include office computers. Which are not gaming machines. What we don't know then is the penetration numbers for Linux and OSX for just home personal use. Which is the important market for games. The numbers could skew Linux to be a more important number.

yeah. I remember that code fork. Though I find Wine takes it's time for DX/D3d support while Cedga focuses on getting games running on it. I think that's why I made the WoW works under Wine comment, becuase it does indeed exist. Wine is better, but I don't think there is a garuntee it will support a lot of games. Though I could be wrong.

In all honesty I would love to see full pc platform support by all companies. It's just that no language has been taken seriously enough for it to be considered. Plus most of the middle ware is done in Windows based C++.

This is what WoW does right regardless of what I think of it's flaws. It runs on just about any PC. Regardless of OS.

I think that OS statistics gathered from browser accesses to web sites are pretty solid, and these numbers speak a clear language: Windows ~ 90%, OS X going on 10%, Linux < 1%.

MS Windows isn't just mainly installed on office machines. There's an insane number of home installations too, and many of these machines today come equipped with mid range graphics. Then there's the consoles. The PS3 has a real hard time gaining some market share. The XBox is doing much better.

Now both Windows and XBox favor DirectX. Go figure. This market like any other is about making money, not about investing in a future too far away to be significant for your income.

I am by no means an Windows fan boy, I own a Linux machine myself (among others), but that's the way it is.
Descent 1 & 2 for Windows, OS X & Linux
Only a dead troll is a good troll.

Are you telling me that Office computers with windows don't have a web browser? I'm not disagreeing where the money is.