Looting off a corpse would give bad karma. Men I do it all the time in Fallout universe.

How is that bad karma?

This is why morality should be left up to individual players. Not everybody is going to agree what is good, bad, or in between.

Heck I feel bad about walking above someone's grave too.

I would just like it to be just normal. It would be a good mechanic, but who would attack your base if you have evil people there? Regulators? Brotherhood?

Well, good guys at least. Imagine setting up our own little Paradise Falls or Evergreen Mills.

That's more of an etiquette issue imo.

Well... I'd imagine raiders will attack everyone, including other raiders if they aren't apart of the same group. There are more raider camps in game than there are settlements, so they'd have to raid each other occasionally.

I would believe that the settlements would tie into end game and maybe even play a role in the 'final battle' sort of thing. I view it sorta like Mass Effect 3, there's a ton of stuff you could pick up as 'war assets', but you didn't actually have too pick them up, and they really didn't change the outcome of the 'final battle' as much as you would have thought it would. But I'm probably over thinking it.

Well, I don't think morality is completely subjective unless you want to get mired in a debate about ethical models. Slavery and wanton murder are pretty evil by most metrics. And most grey morality is having to do something kinda evil for the greater good, or when both sides are flawed but have morally good reasons to be fighting.

They do need a better approach, though, and more neutral/gray material. You should never gain karma from killing someone, evil or no, and you should only lose karma if you attacked first and they're innocent. Stealing/trespassing shouldn't generally cause a karma drop, but I could see them having radiant theft quests that reward negative karma on completion. Radiant quests for enslaving people or capturing escaped slaves, too. Radiant bounty quests can go both ways, and maybe they can make android slavery a neutral thing (but they'll probably be considered the same as humans by the karma system).

You should gain good karma for killing a really evil person and if you kill a saint you should get evil karma. But you shouldn't get good karma for killing feral ghouls like you did in FNV. The karma system needs a revamp to make logical sense IMO.

I carry a shovel with me from the beginning of the game, and loot graves that I find........

I don't want to get into a big debate, but 'morality' is nothing but a human societal invention. Sure, most people think that killing and slavery are 'evil' but most does not mean right and several hundred years ago it would be a different situation altogether. Think about the viking age, the crusades, the spanish conquest, manifest destiny, etc. All those people thought they were the 'good guys' and the infidels/tribals/whatever where evil heathens.

Good point but what if you just grab the laser muskett and say 'screw Preston Garvey and his 4 friends'? Unless that is a story related quest. Even then, I'm sure you can just return to gun them all down after you get the Power Armor near the crashed vertibird.

This would be so cool if you could do this.

You mean kind of like radiant slave collar quests? That would definitely be cool if the game didn't limit how evil you could be. Personally, I don't see enslaving androids as evil since they're machines, though I'm sure there are those who would disagree.

I would hope Fallout 4 let's you decide and doesn't automatically typecast you as an evildoer if you did decide to enslave androids, if that's even possible. Unless you were only frowned upon from a certain group of NPC's who supported android liberal rights.

I hope so id hate to be a heartless bastard building a giant base hoping to attract raiders to build a bandit clan and then all I get is a bunch of goody two shoes wimps.

Hopefully they keep the dichotomy of Reputation and Karma

Similar to Skyrim's civil war which really didn't affect or change jack with the world around you. I would hope Bethesda steps it up with choices and long term consequences this time around.

i thank karma should affect how people view you and reputiation should decided if your good our bad to that setlment

karma is a terrible measure for your character. for karma to have any place it would first have to take into account motivation. i always have high karma on every character i play, not because im any sort of good but because nothing but stupid evil gets any evil karma. then there is the fact that almost every single human in existence has some difference in morals. really, reputation is the only real way for the game to track our actions in a really accurate way since it just has to track what NPCs think us instead of the multitude of reasons we players may do seemingly random things

but i do want reputation to play a big part in building your town, if you get a high rep with raiders then raiders should show up!

Yes, more so looting during an war where you already have looted the bodies you have piled up.

FO:NV took it longer by giving you good karma for farming fiends. They was nice targets mid game and you run into them a lot anyway but you pretty much had to avoid them if you wanted bad karma.

I really, really hope karma doesn't return. Fallout should absolutely not have some black-and-white morality system.

Now stealing could have an small negative reputation impact. FO:NV I enter the BoS bunker, talk a bit, agree to do an quest, then clear out all the lookers at the lower level and other places with no people.

Yes you might become an suspect. Small would be for each object, so stealing a few items would have minimal impact, clearing places would.

Agreed.

Or something like Paradise Falls with slavers!

If they implemented some way of your actions/reputation attracting certain types to your settlement, that automatically will up the re-playability for me. And like someone else in the thread commented, it would also fit for if you have a settlement of raiders to get attacked by other raiders. I see no problem if they used the karma metric to help determine this sort of thing since I've always seen karma as the word of mouth spread about the main character through whatever actions/dialogs that are too minor to use game resources to put in place.

On the one hand this is a good idea. On the other hand i don't want karma to come back because it is immersion-breaking as hell.

I also fell like OP is yelling at me.