See I kind of always liked keeping it in mint condition. Just knowing, hell yeah, my .357/.44/.45/.50 Pistol is all set up and my big bore rifle is ready to cave some skulls in...

I might need to reinstall NV and some mods. Maybe F3 and some mods. I miss the Lincoln Repeater.

Yes, but you know, Bethesda can put LOGIC into their game, I know scary right?

First off, even with your well thought out list of glass combined with mine it still doesn't even come close to the list of NON glass materials i came up with on the spot.

Second, Bethesda may realize you are not the ONLY guy in the whole world right? Most Glass was probably destroyed when, I don't know, Several atomic bombs blew up over head? Most glass products, probably like 90% I'd say, are probably broken, or otherwise unusable. I mean if a sonic boom is enough to shatter entire city blocks of glass, what about like dozens of nukes?

Now, subtract that amount of useful glass materials left with OTHER scavengers may have got there before you, (other people exist? Say it isn't so!) and then that 10% goes to about 5%.

And finally, take into account crap people have been doing just by existing, and it goes down to probably 2%-3% glass still left that can be used.

Wow, such glass, many wow.

Yes, it is not a hardcoe survival game like many other games, but they can still take HINTS from other games and make it feel real. Heck, they can decide to make materials rare in the hardcoe mode only for all I care, but I really don't think you will just be swimming in useful materials no matter what you do, and how much you think Bethesda caters to casuals.

If it's anything like Hearthfire in Skyrim, even a single house will eat up like crap tons of materials.

Now realize you are making entire communities with possibly dozens of buildings each, plus turrets, plus power supplies, and finally things your people need to use up just to get by.

Wow, I have so many resources left to myself...

My list is coming from the gameplay demo.


Todds words were that there are THOUSANDS of items. If we're getting glass from something as small baby bottles and there are thousands of different items, I'm sure that list of glass is huuuuuuge and is probably somewhere in the triple digits.

But yea, I mean you're assumption that there is going to be a shortage of each of these thousands of items is quite logical.

Even though there is an extensive base building system that sees you making entire settlements.

But oh yea, they are going to have 3 different settlement locations, with potential for dozens of different things to build at said settlements....only to forget to add a lot of places to get the resources.

Let's just ignore the PC being able to scrap entire buildings for concrete, steel, rubber and nails. I imagine steel and nails would be used to make kits to repair weapons, and they are available in the triple double digits just from scrapping a door or other common item, meaning these same repair kits would be ridiculously common, and render a repair system just as useless as it was in NV.

It's like they tried to test this in house and came to the same conclusion...

Anyway I've wasted like a day on this forum so i'm just going to sum up:

Yes, the repair system needs tweaks, and can be better implemented.

But, I still think that with this new crafting system they can add some balling new features to the durability mechanic as a whole and if they really get into it, can make it something really special and immersive.

They're going to need to do it well to make it feel alright.

But in the end, if they at least attempt, I think they can make it one of the most intuitive features that has ever been in a FO game.

That's all i'm saying for now.

You should check out the Fan Fiction part of the forum Bob. You write good, do good write where it no waste. Make um fun story. Story good me like.

I'll avoid block-quotes this time because apparently there's a limit to how many block quotes you can have.

-http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Repair that's not uncontrollable. Here's http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Condition math, again adjustable values.

-I don't exactly recall spamming skill books in FNV or Fo3.

-The faulty decay rate can be adjusted via a formula that is assigned to individual items. It doesn't have to be a blanket formula.

-I won't disagree with that, I feel that DT/DR should be combined.

-The way FNV handled armor decay compared to Fo3 is questionable, but I would venture and say that armor is categorized (armor class) in addition to its weight class.

Power Armor = Advanced

Metal Combat Armor = Intermediate

Pre-war Outfit = Clothing

You can then apply adjusted condition rates to the armor class based off of condition decay formulas.

-You're right, but the game operates on a bell curve. Mid-game makes up most of the game and having a balanced mid-game keeps a game fresh. Repair and barter still ebb into the mid-game, despite being easier to deal with. I can argue that health is superfluous because the ease of producing stimpacks or doctor bags is also trivial by the mid/late game.

-My earlier solution was not to necessarily keep repair in its current condition, but to introduce a dynamic system that incentivized maintaining a weapon at top condition for bonuses that translated into all stages of the game. Don't assume that because there is an abundance of material that the player can just automatically make every item modification under the sun - not without some investment into perks. You can easily make it so that early stages of the game, the player is required to find a weapon their current weapon uses as a base and repair it using that. A perk can then exist which basic junk materials that would otherwise be used to create a scope, to be used to repair a gun by a small amount. Another perk would allow the player to use better quality weapons and materials to "super-charge" their weapons (like my clean-and-serene idea).

-Money was never an issue in Skyrim.

Edit: With all that has been said, I have argued my point and you have argued yours. I will leave it up to the devs to decide what they want to do. I cannot advocate the removal of a system like this so I will agree to disagree with you on the matter of outright stripping it from the game. I can at least take solace in the fact that repair will play some level of importance in the upkeep of power armor. Whether it extends beyond that is unlikely, and seeing as how I never play with Power Armor, it's possible I won't have a repair system to tinker over.

It doesn't affect my purchase of the game as I know I will still have fun with the game.

The only fallout game this decade that had money being an issue was 3.

In NV you had infinite caps from weapon repair kits; find a laser rifle, use these items that total up to 35 caps to put it at 100% and sell it for hundreds of caps.

Or just hit up the casino.

I just have to say something about this, but I swear, unless someone has a mental aneurysm, and says something really ****ing stupid, I won't say no more.

1. I think there is going to be a shortage of items in small bouts, of course it's still fallout and things will respawn after a few days, but I doubt one trip into the wasteland will get you enough materials to build a mansion first thing, not to mention you probably can't carry that much of these obviously heavy materials.

2. I would normally complain being able to scrap buildings at will whenever you wanted, but he was obviously in some sort of god mode, the ability to do that at will would BREAK THE VERY FOUNDATION OF THE GAME. Don't want to assault this building of raiders? Just scrap the house out from under them! Yeah, no, they won't let this happen without either massive help and/or equipment and other prerequisites.

3. I think they are going to make you HAVE to go through several months of game play to build a single settlement, even if you try and rush to get it done as fast as possible. I mean, they have already confirmed 400+ hours in the game, and it still is a few months off, something is clearly eating a majority of that time, and I think it's base building.

And finally, this,

Well, then why not let them add the repair mechanic like many people want them too? Because, as I said before,

So, why not just let us have it, and if you don't like and of the decisions they made with it, remove it? I mean, it doesn't seem that hard to remove something, and with mods coming out for consoles as well, you can't really even fight for the defence of those on the consoles by saying "what about those who don't want it in the game and can't remove it if they want to?" Because obviously, they can. So this seems like a very dumbed down way to just say let them do it. Because who knows? You might like the way they implement it. But if you tell them to get rid of it completely, you will never know what they might have done with it, and we have seen them get rid of it before in Skyrim, and I just have to say, like many others, I wasn't really a fan. Especially if it takes place in the setting Fallout does.

This will probably be the last I say on this topic for tonight, cause I really don't feel like spending any more time on this tonight.

I just don't see how the argument of removing stands against the argument of keeping it. The main drawbacks people have claimed is that it's pointless, a waste of time, and only serves to make the player carry more of the same weapon around. However, those arguments do not stand at all when compared to the positives having repairing brings which have been stated by myself and many others within this thread. It just adds far too much towards the gameplay to just get rid of.

Do you think weapon degradation is hard to add via mods?

I know Fallout's 3 Tale of two Wastelands added hunger and sleep, weapon modifications, iron-sights.

I am pretty confident as soon as the game comes out there will be people thinking about repair system mod, i hope it is not that hard to implement.

Well, sounds like you don't want any challenge in your games. You say "it's not their job to stop you, it's only up to yourself." Well, guess what? TO DO THAT I WOULD HAVE TO NOT TASTE ANY OF THE GAME.

As I have said before, you can reach the level cap with LEATHER if you want, you applaud them making it so Daderic armor is unchallenged, yet forget ANY TYPE OF LIGHT ARMOR CAN REACH THE ARMOR CAP AS WELL IF GIVEN ENOUGH SMITHING. Therefore, you have Leather being just as strong as ebony or what have you. Doesn't seem very realistic. Now tell me when you've seen that in FO? NEVER! Even the best Power Armor can be ripped to shreds by Yao Guai and Deathclaws! That's the main reason they have them! So you can't become invincible! And also this means I will purposefully have to NOT use most armors in the game in Skyrim just to make myself more realistically put in the game world. So why did they add all these things if you can already become as powerful as you want using Iron and Leather? Sounds like those are the only armors they should have in the game then.

If you really think this is true and you should never reach a cap in your games to ever limit your abilities, go play COD or Hello Kitty: Island Adventure! You already start off as strong as you will be in both, AKA a super soldier, nothing can stop you!

Honestly you make it sound like you turn on god mode in the console at the beginning of every game and lament about every factor that ISN'T controlled by it, and hate it when a game, you know, offers ANY sort of difficultly or slight discomfort. God what is it like to fight enemies for you? The point of a game is not to hold your hand and tell you it's alright, and give you no limit, because that becomes a grind to NOTHING. Why would anybody find this fun? Heck, 95% people hate grinding in a game where it actually may be paid off with rare armor of weapons, let alone if it is a continued grind indefinitely with NOTHING TO GAIN BECAUSE YOU ALREADY HAVE EVERYTHING.

I really find humanity's future worrysome if people now find crap like that fun.

Sadly, they were able to mod most of that in because it was stuff they added from Vegas (hence, tale of TWO Wastelands) and I doubt they really could of added that effectively on their own. And with this new crafting system they are adding that will seem to complicate a lot of things in terms of repair. So unless they have it to start off in the game, or you get a really good modder that can take the limited repair they showed for Power Armor and apply it too weapons as well, I sadly think not many people will be able to do anything about it, at least for a little while. So hopefully we get at least a good modder that can really make some magic if Beth doesn't do it themselves.

Otherwise, I sadly think we're **** outta luck.

As i said before though, if they added it and people hated it, the mod to remove it would probably take few days at the very least, while for people like us it would be a long and difficult process.

I wouldn't mind it being in hardcoe mode but I don't want it at all in the normal gameplay itself.

Why do you say that? Not that it really matters, I would normally play hardcoe mode if they had it anyway and it would be pretty easy to mod if you were just taking it from hardcoe and adding it to normal. But I don't think they'd put in all that effort for only hardcoe to use. Why not make it more of a disableable option for people, although then again, they might fear that no one is going to use this system that may have taken a lot of time to make. But then maybe put it as always active for hardcoe, and possibly optional for normal mode.

Really for me, if they had a hardcoe option and weapon repair and condition in at least some sort of capacity, i'd see absolutely no issues with this game at all. I don't ***** about the graphics like many other people, and really couldn't care less about the voiced PC. As long as it's somewhat on par to Mass Effect, I would be fine with it.

You should really watch the crafting demo.

It is very possible to scrap the neighboring run down houses for concrete, rubber, and steel.

Crafting materials are going to be all over, which makes sense considering everything is...scrap.

Anyway, the repair system was never well tuned and wouldn't work in a game world where the player can pick up anything and scrap it down to spare parts.

The only argument for putting it in is to nerd the amount of parts you get, which would render the extensive crafting system they just put in impossible to use.

Bethesda NEVER gets repairing right in their games... Both in Fallout and in Elder Scrolls. So I never cared for it and rather just not have it. It's always just a hassle and annoyance really. You either go around and repair your crap or pay gold/caps to get your crap repaired, while also how simple/easy it is for items to degrade (and fast, might I add)...

It's just overall annoying and doesn't feel right to me. I rather not have it in the normal gameplay. I don't mind having it in hardcoe myself because hardcoe is suppose to be much harder, and possibly even annoying at times.

My guess is we won't get a hardcoe mode with Fallout 4 anyway. The only TES or Fallout game that had it was New Vegas, and of course Bethesda didn't develop that one. We're probably going to have to rely on modders to give us that once again.

I did watch the crafting video. If you mean you can clearly scrap an ENTIRE BUILDING at the push of a button, you're wrong. If you mean you can go INTO a building and scrap most if not everything inside, that would be more correct.

Well, last I checked you can't just find something metal and say "Ermagerd! I have a new gun barrel!" No, you first have to smelt it, fasten it, and then apply it, all of which can probably only be done at a workbench. Just because you have the materials, doesn't mean you have the ability to use it immediately.

Why not get on Skyrim's case? Ores were ****ing everywhere in that game, and you could use them for free to upgrade and make new equipment. Therefore, the smithing system is broken because the materials were to common? I guess you will say skills limited you, so how about you can't break things down into gun barrels and stuff without high enough repair skill perk in Fallout 4?

And finally, if it will be that easy, why are you complaining? You're like that guy in horror movies that say he isn't afraid of the monster, but keeps saying "let's go back, we shouldn't even try to go further." Similar to you being the guy saying repair will be to easy and nothing but misc busy work that shouldn't be put into the game because it's too simple, yet keeps "saying don't implement it, it will be pointless!" But I view it as important, you view it as not even worth trying. But why if it isn't going to be hard at all? Why complain about more being put into the game?

Oh my. You people who are against the repair mechanic need to come up with a general response you can all agree with. Just a few pages ago people were saying that's it's absolutely pointless and never adds any challenge and the weapons don't even degrade slow enough for you to notice, or they always have enough caps to go to a merchant to repair to 100%, etc. But you actually say it affects you, costs you a lot of caps that you don't want to spend or have to spend, and it actually degrades too fast. So it seems like I have to debate with 2 completely different points of view to try and get people to see my reasoning, which is what neither of you want for completely different reasons.

THANKFULLY I'M GOOD AT THAT.

Well, as I have said before, it adds some sort of difficulty into the game, and makes it so that the lines between equipment are blurred, and not always clear. You saying you like the way Skyrim did it? You know, without having any reason to NOT use the best equipment at all times and keeping the feeling of the game somewhat stunted? And on top of that, making it so that almost any armor can reach the armor cap, and make the entire system pointless, and even making it pointless to get anything better than leather or iron by the time your smithing is at a hundred?

I am not saying the repair system is perfect, I hope they improve upon it with this new crafting system, make individual parts need repairs, not the gun itself, and use scrap to make my scope or barrel better. But, I prefer this sort of "annoyance" on top of the Skyrim one any day.

Because as I have said before, Skyrim's endgame was just as tedious and boring as the repair system was for everyone. No enemy could stop you, you were god of all skills, and the game made you feel unstoppable. I may as well have type "TGM" in the console it was that bad. I'd rather it be annoying with you actually having to work and be able to improve upon yourself, rather than it be annoying with you at the top and force yourself to shove stones in your mouth, take off your armor and get rid of your weapons, and shove an arrow into your knee to make a fight with a legendary dragon even close to fair.

Ever read those stories about people having to force themselves to be worse to be even with other in terms of skill? In stark contrast to the optimistic stories of people trying to better themselves in life?

One is dystopian, and the other is capitalist.

For me, I prefer capitalism any day.

Such as?

Becuase I shouldn't have to mod my game to remove a broken gameplay system.

It should either just work, or not be in the game in the first place.

this simply has to stay. iv started a new playthrough of fo3 and this has added so much tension is is amazing. i was trapped in the D.C. ruins for awhile (fast traveling is a cheaty thing, i refuse to use it, especially to escape) with mostly broken weapons and low ammo, moments like this are the reason to play beth games it was intense, dramatic and extremely fun

- I don't know, the the things like 4 people have been trying to tell you ALL ****ING DAY. Apparently you found them important enough to spend an entire day trying to refute and debate against?

- And I shouldn't have to mod my game to add what I see as an important game play element in my eyes. I see it as crucial, you see it as trivial. It is very hard to add, but easy to remove. So, in the scheme of the universe so to speak, who should have their way in the game, and who, if they don't like what they put in the game, change it? I'd say the guy that doesn't really care for it and has the easier time trying to remove it should have to be the one to make their own personal change.

After all, if the repair system isn't very hard for you and doesn't take any time out of your day, how hard is it for you to download a single mod?

- YOU DON'T KNOW IF THEY CAN MAKE IT WORK YET. I have been telling you this all day! Yes, they have screwed up in your eyes before. Even I think it could be heavily improved. But with all this new weapon modularity and crap they are adding you can't really say that they are bound to screw up yet again when they are ADDING ALL THIS NEW STUFF.

And people say it doesn't add immersion at all. I find it just as important as this guy, it adds that extra something you can't replace.

20+ years of game devs failing to do it suggets they cannot.