When was the last time a game got open world vehicles in a game like FO correctly? Because FO4 is trying it even when all the STALKER games tried and failed. Even FO3 tried and they had to remove it as well.

This is a time of uprecedented game development. They are able to do things people 20+ years ago can only dream of. When was the last time a Beth game had repair? 5 YEARS AGO. that's one-fifth of your 20 years, and take into account it was NV which just molded the FO3 repair differently so i'd say it'd be around 7 YEARS since they last truly had a repair system. Do you really have no faith in developers any more to get this right?

Also, you have still failed to talk about what I said earlier. Out of 7 or so things I wish for you to make a response to, you only talked about 2 or so.

You have to be really careful when making these sorts of statements. It's very easy to directly transfer this into: "Bethesda never got sword/gunplay right, and it was annoying", which has been a common criticism, now you remove that entirely and yes, there are still people out there that say that they didn't think combat was particularly important. But I would wager you aren't complaining that Bethesda chose to improve instead of sack it entirely in FO4?

It's the exact same thing. There are only positives. To claim otherwise is an extremely self-centered.

I have no idea what the other people were thinking but from my experiences... Weapons degrade WAY too fast for it to be really good for me to like. Instead, it forces me to either spend unwanted trips to town or work on the Repair skill for a character that wasn't meant to use the repair skill. I find that to be very annoying when I just wanna play the game and continue onward just fine.

Also, if you don't have enough gold/caps to repair your gear then you don't do much looting or questing... Money in Bethesda's games has always been very easy to earn honestly.

You are forgetting the main thing that Bethesda likes to do: Freedom.

The reason why you can do that with any armor in Skyrim is so players aren't forced to always wear the "best armor" but instead can craft gear in a way that they can wear/use armor that they like and suits their character, without having to worry about crippling them in combat. It doesn't make the entire system pointless, it helps a lot of players whom don't want to wear ugly Dragonbone armor or Daedric (Daedric isn't ugly, just doesn't suit my tastes) or Glass armor (if they are light users).

At the same time, this ability is COMPLETELY OPTIONAL! So you don't like it? Don't use it. Heck, Todd even said that about the ability to build towns and homes in Fallout 4. Not your thing? Don't do it. It's totally optional. Why ruin the feature or remove it simply because you don't like it when you don't need to use it? Also, mind you, that this whole blacksmithing can easily be in the game along with repairing. They don't disqualify one another so don't use that excuse.

I don't find the repair system in general an annoyance, just how it has been treated by Bethesda in previous games before Skyrim. I usually mod it out myself one way or another. Bethesda just doesn't do it right and give it proper justice... I rather see them work on amazing crafting systems and other stuff to allow players to really expand and make each of their characters unique, rather than them working on a system which they don't seem to be able to do properly, thusly causing annoyances for the players.

It's choice. What I usually do keeps the game at a good difficulty and I am not a "god of all skills" in Skyrim at all. Though, the endgame of EVERY Bethesda game is pretty powerful anyways. Morrowind by far is the worse offender, in my opinion, where you are an "unstoppable force", to put it in your words. Also, a fight with a Legendary Dragon is always a pain in my [censored] on Skyrim, even with all my armor and magic resistances.

So it wasn't the game itself that was bad... I say it was you that made the game that easy for yourself. I have no idea what you did but you did something to make the game that easy.

GTA did cars just fine, and has for years.

However, Fo4 doesn't have cars, it has PA and vertibirds. Doing aircraft is easy because terrain doesn't come into play.

Also, I don't recall Fo3 ever having working cars in its development.

Bethesda never fully fleshes out combat, yes, but their combat is still actually good and not terrible.

Their repair systems, at least for their major games (Fallout and Elder Scrolls) is literally pretty terrible and annoying. I'm not saying that I want it to be completely removed myself (I rather see them actually do a proper repair system) BUT I would rather have it removed than have what we got in the previous titles, simply because they were literally just awful.

Yes, well I personally think they don't degrade that fast, but I suppose it's just opinions.

Uh, no. Freedom is a priotrity, but only one of many. I wanted to join the enclave in FO3 and help them control everything. Could I? Not really. Yeah they had that single ending choice, but all that did was kill everyone else off and let the few enclave survivors that I missed while kicking their asses so much just win by default. Also, I really doubt that was their "canon" ending so I think they just threw that in there to give people like me something to look at.

Also, I wanted to have the outcasts dream come true and put them in charge instead of those boy scouts that call themselves BoS. Instead the most I could do for them was find a fission battery and give it to them on occasion. And these are just a few examples, I have many more areas I was disappointed with in terms of freedom.

This also extends to them armor system. Yes, I may want the choice to wear leather and feel just as powerful as I would in dadreic, but then I personally feel like an ass hat wearing cow/deer/dog hide that is as powerful as demonically possessed metal from the depths of hell. If they don't have limits on what I can do, why not start me in full dadreic armor along with enchanted weaponry? Yes, you want to have the game be fun, but if you become god where is the fun? It is their job to limit you on at least some extent, or else you pretty much are on minecraft creative mode. Also, what about if I wish to wear powerful armor, but not feel like a god while using it? I want to go around thinking that i'm the best I can possibly be, like in FO, but still not enough to completely own the world, again, like in FO. This is the issue with your argument being about player choice and freedom, is that anyone, like me, can turn it around on you in favor of a totally opposite outcome from the one you were arguing for in the first place. Daderic armor can reach the level cap without smithing as well, just get your armor skill good enough and your good to go. So I shouldn't be able to use it cause you think i'm a whiny [censored] who thinks it's too strong? See? I just completely turned your logic around on you, and just by replacing a few words but still using the same mindset, I used it to promote my idea instead of yours. I wanted Akatosh himself to be the enemy at the end of Skyrim. Why wouldn't they let it happen? Oh! BECAUSE I DID NOT MAKE THE GAME OR STORY.

The issue with using player's personal opinions to craft your entire game is that they all think differently and each are TECHNICALLY all completely justified in their personal opinions. Someone wishes Steel to be better than ebony in the game? I'd call him [censored] and fight him day and night and the developers have to listen to both of our ideas. This is why they control a lot of the game development, so they can come up with a system they have control over while everyone else can scream and shout about things and they don't have to change it. You think they are reading both of our viewpoints on repair right now? Hell no, their going to implement what they implement based on what they want/need to do and without a miraculous amount of people voting in one favor are they ever going to change it. They are still required to make there own world.

They made the lore, they have said Daderic is the best armor. Making leather just as powerful would break the lore. And, IMHO, a well built world and good lore is what makes up most of the Elder Scrolls and FO games, not freedom. That's why many people liked Skyrim itself but not the world behind it. Beth in many people's opinion has completely ruined the lore in the elder scrolls. And I have to agree. Not even 2 games ago did the empire have total control. And then all of a sudden for some reason they fight the Thalmor because they have a bad emporer bloodline and almost lose and the Thalmor makes them their ***** and they are forced to follow them and then the world splits into 3 different factions all of a sudden for some reason and the imperials join the dadera and blakaty blakty blakty yak. Doesn't make much sense. But did they look at what people said about this? No, they went through with this monstrosity of a lore and now many people like the game play, but hate the world the game is centered around.

Believe it or not, it is up to the game developers to make a game that still limits you and still can frustrate and annoy you. Why get rid of levitation from morrowind and paid fast travel to specific spots and trade it for fast travel all over the world for free? Because they choose to do that.

I am merely saying I didn't like what they did. This entire discussion is an exercise in futility. Your arguments aren't swaying me, and I doubt mine are swaying many of you. So I really don't see the need to waste another day on this discussion if we are just going to end up like we did yesterday. You know my reasons for wanting to keep repair, and I know yours for wanting it's removal, and neither of us are getting anywhere in terms of persuading the other, so I think I'll end it here so I don't spend another day on this subject.

I think it's always been terrible. And that's quite a common opinion. I'm able to think this, on a nearly identical issue, but why can I not understand the stance you're taking? Why am I able to think, yes it's terrible, but it's also a part of the game and should be in it and you aren't? Despite not personally liking it... Am I just a better person than you? Perhaps, I'm also able to think outside of my own box?

I'm not going to argue that I think that they should remove combat entirely since it's proven that they cannot (in your words after 20 years of experience) get it right, if there are people out there that like it.

No offense but this made me stop reading your post and stopped me from taking ya arguments as serious as I did before.

Actually, scratch the "no offense" thing... You actually manage to go down the insulting route and insulted me in your last post... Now I officially won't take ya seriously. (I don't condemned insults when in debates, and when one is thrown, I don't take that person seriously anymore).

So no more bothering your posts for sure now on. Have a good day.

You read my post incorrectly if you think I said their combat is bad.

I might be one of the few people who really does enjoy the combat in Bethesda's major games and hope that they keep improving on it like they've always been doing.

i hope it dose the wife likes the duct tape sound it makes when fixing things

Okay, I'm breaking my oath of not posting again to apologize to you. If I said anything remotely rude I meant it as a joke, nothing more. It's just that I've spent an entirety of like 3 days doing nothing else besides being on these forums debating and arguing with people with different viewpoints from me, and while some have some well thought out points in some of their arguments like you, a whole lot have just had really [censored] posts that I've ever had the misfortune of reading, and it just got to me I guess.

I reread that post several times to make sure it wasn't to over the top, I guess I thought people had higher tolerances to in, but I guess that was my fault.

Anyway, I hope you reconsider and try and read the points I made, because I did think the actual content of the post out as you can tell by it's length, and I will try and edit it to be less offensive.

No hard feelings I hope?

Where are you getting this from? I really don't know where this idea comes from, heck I think Bethesda did a good job with repair in FO3, just not perfect. I completely disagree.

Tis fine as long it wasn't intentional.

Though I think we do agree at some points. For example, I believe we both agree that repair needs to be worked on and we both would love to see a better repair system (I just said that I rather it be removed than have the old repair system, not that it was my top preference to remove it).

Yeah, no it wasn't intentional. I was just trying to add some humor into my posts because as you can see, they are really long, boring, and for the most part just chalk full of information and opinions, and I have been writing them for 3 days against people with the exact opposite beliefs from mine.

You can see my dilemma.

But yes, I really don't want to get into this discussion again, and I think I have said all their is to say for me, so you can go back and read my other posts if you need to get my viewpoint on the subject for the future or what have you.

Is it completely confirmed that there will be no repair elements in this game?

I'm going to miss it. The way it was implemented in the past game wasnt entirely realistic, but I still think that keeping your rifle in good working order should be a large part of any post-apocalyptic game. You treat your rifle right, it treats you just right back with a lot of dead raiders. Atleast the weapon mod system will allow for a lot more tinkering, but I enjoy the upkeep parts of my characters life in the wastes a bit more than I would think other people do. Cleaning my weapon was just one part of that, alongside primary needs.

We know you have to repair power armor.

Ah thats nice. Not a big fan of PA myself, usually switch between combat armour or a armoured vault suit. But the new system about PA not just being a suit of platemail looks really nice, so ill have to keep it in a secure place in my settlement for "emergencies".

It wouldn't be Fallout without it.

so are Fallout 1, 2, and Tactics not Fallout?

No one considered tactics FO, at least canon FO, and I do not doubt that if they were able to incorporate personal item repair in an effective manner they would have jumped on it. I mean, I think the fact that they have an entire repair skill but it can only affect a few specific items in the world was not all they may have meant for this to be. I think they may have attempted repair but it may have been to complex for the computers of the time.

It would have added way more RPG elements if they got it in due to the unique way combat played out in the first two games anyway. It could have been implemented far easier in those games than the way FO3 did it since it was isometric and everything was random, and based on your skills and luck, and in the end it was a random generator that choose if you hit at all. The computer might not have been able too handle all of these numbers upon numbers of random source generation just for something as simple as hitting an enemy. But it could have made it so that if your weapon was damaged, it could have given less chances to fire during your turn because of it's poor condition, and your chance to miss an enemy could have been greatly increased. They had many more options with repair in that sort of game than FO3.

Tons of people did, and still do. As did Interplay, and Bethesda.

The only Fallout game considered so bad as to not be canon by the fans is BoS

Okay, I look at the wiki and the best they consider it is SEMI-canon, meaning that the major events that happened in it were canon, but for the most part the things that happened in it are non-canon.

Never said otherwise.

Was only saying your statement that "No one considered tactics FO, at least canon FO," isn't true, and it never was.

Saw the first page as it always loads first on my phone, wanted to correct something.

Fallout is not post-post-apocalyptic. The statement that it was never post-apocalyptic is easily countered by anyone who played the first games. Just find the full title of the first game. Fallout a post nuclear role playing game. You can argue semantics if you want.