Looking at the pipboy sections of the demo it looks like it's gone.

I don't think it'll be too missed since it seems to be replaced with a ridiculously large customization system, and honestly it didn't add much save encouraging you to carry multiples of every weapon.

It did add to realism, but if you just carried enough weapons you could keep everything at 100% permanently, and it isn't very realistic to carry around 7 hunting rifles at all times.

It also required you to have gain a copy of another weapon once you found an upgrade since most weapons are found in awful condition.

Again, not very compelling gameplay to finally find a combat shotgun, only for it to be not an upgrade at all until you can manage to find a second one. It's just dead weight in your inventory until you do, and once you have it up to snuff you've got to dedicate even more inventory space to keep it functional.

In my hundreds of hours playing 3 and NV, I've never once broken a gun unless I deliberately shot it out of an enemies hands;if the system was gone the only difference would have been a few dozen pounds of repair kits of duplicate weapons.

I've said it once, I've said it a thousand times.

I'd rather games improve upon systems than remove them entirely. Make repairing more fun and balanced. Make it so you can use crafting materials instead of just a copy of the weapon to maintain your items. Give lots of benefits to players who invest in repairing, allowing them to create new weapons or unlock new upgrades. Don't just take away arguably the only mechanic that makes Fallout feel like a post apocalyptic survival game (especially since hardcoe mode probably wont be in).

But, if Bethesda's past actions are anything to go by, I almost guarentee that repairing weapons has been cut.

Fallout never was that, its supposedly post-post apocalyptic.

You're acting as if they didn't consider first making it interesting.

The game has been in development for years, and while it's fun to paint a company as fun hating and axing perfectly good features, they are, in reality, trying to make games with good gameplay.

During development of FO3 the world was much larger, but they found during inhouse testing it just amounted to lots of walking around, which isn't very fun to do.

I think it's much more logical to say they did the same thing with repair, and came to the same conclusion instead of just outright removing features for no reason.

Then let me re-phrase by adding one word:

I've said it once, I've said it a thousand times.

I'd rather games improve upon systems than remove them entirely. Make repairing more fun and balanced. Make it so you can use crafting materials instead of just a copy of the weapon to maintain your items. Give lots of benefits to players who invest in repairing, allowing them to create new weapons or unlock new upgrades. Don't just take away arguably the only mechanic that makes Fallout feel like a post-post apocalyptic survival game (especially since hardcoe mode probably wont be in).

But, if Bethesda's past actions are anything to go by, I almost guarentee that repairing weapons has been cut.

Two of the three things being suggested are in the game.

You can make new weapons and upgrade them through the use of weapon modding.

A plasma caster becomes a plasma pistol when you put a pistol grip on it, and a plasma rifle when putting a stock on it.

The only thing not included is allowing the repair with tons of different part, but at that point maintaining a weapon becomes so easy nothing ever drops below 100%, at which point you have to ask what is the point of the system in the first place? You run into the same situation as having jury rigging, where everything repaired everything and weapon durability never ever dropped.


I guarantee you they tried letting you use parts to repair items, but they also threw in a bunch of usable junk to make crafting possible and fun.

So now we have a game where all junk is usable to create and repair something, and junk is everywhere.

I would think it will return I don't know why not maybe the new weapon mod bench is where you do that & you can't do it on the fly anymore but I don't know now i'm just guessing.

Who says it can't be better balanced? And to your point here:

"Two of the three things being suggested are in the game."

That was my intent. I think maintaining weapons works well within this system and makes a lot of sense.

Read my edit as to why it doesn't work at all.

Junk is everywhere and if repair parts are everywhere, what's the point of a repair system?

You can walk into a house and come out with enough parts to keep everything at 100% for days, and there's a lot of abandoned houses in the wasteland.

If repairing things is more interesting this time around with customizations this time around I'm all for it. If not I view it as a boring but luckily easy to fix chore.

Maintaining weapons through Repair kits might be the best and most feasible way at this point. TBH, I'd rather carry around a bunch of Repair kits than a bunch of the same weapon for repairing.

Maybe it takes specific junk for specific weapons? Just like the upgrade system seems to work. Maybe it takes multiple parts of each piece of junk? Maybe there's specific junk, like gun parts and armor scraps, that can be broken down from other items or found randomly in the wasteland? There's a lot of ways for this to work.

Exactly. Hopefully, IF repairing exists in this game (which I'm almost positive it wont), then hopefully they've improved upon it to make it more engaging.

Again, lots of ways for it to work but not you're just coming with with hoops to jump through to justify the system.

Guns are very common in the wasteland, and breaking them down to repair my current weapon is not very different than just outright repairing it with the weapon.

Interesting gameplay is the first concern, and if you're grasping to make a gameplay element interesting, it probably isn't.

The nature of game development saw them trying to come up with a system to make it work, and they couldn't come up with a way to make it compelling, so it was removed.

I'm not trying to look for hoops to jump through. I'm trying to find ways to improve a system that I think, when done properly, could add a lot to the game. I understand you don't care, but I like rpg mechanics like this to be in games, especially ones that at least have a theme and atmosphere that would imply survival aspects and desperation. I want my gun to jam in bad situations. I want my baseball bat to break over a raider's head in a badass moment of awesomeness, but then forces me to scrounge for another weapon from the corpses of my enemies. These are all fun moments I'd like to see. Moments of challenge and difficulty and survival. Moments that I'd miss out on without an improved version of this system.

Those aren't RPG elements.

Those are survival elements.

Fallout is a RPG set in a post apocalyptic world.

I think repairing was as fun as the next guy, but I wouldn't say it was an interesting gameplay mechanic. I didn't think about it, I just looted the body of whatever I killed and used his weapon to repair my stuff, and by late game I had enough repair kits to last me until another nuclear war occurred.

You can either make these things extremely hard to craft, but now you're nerfing them to make repairing your item more difficult than it should be.

If they aren't difficult enough to craft, you've got tons of them and no weapon ever drops below 99%, so why have it at all?

The repair system was Bethesdas baby, they added it to the franchise and I can promise you they didn't decide to just scrap it on a whim. They added a bunch of useful junk to the game, and that probably had the consequence of making weapon repair so easy it isn't a problem anymore.

In FNV I had to prepare by repairing my armor and weapons before heading to NV or any long journey in the wastes. Awaiting me were a valley of deathclaws and cazadores. An immense sense of fear and cautiousness built up as I tip toed around enemies to avoid unnecessary battle. As soon as the first deathclaw approached me I knew that I had to get as many head shots I possibly could until my armor and weapons deteriorated.

Having to repair weapons and armor is more than a trivial task, the aspect or repair and degradation adds to the ambiance and atmosphere surrounding experiences in the game. A sense of fear and survival stems from the possibility of not knowing how long your weapons and armor will last during the heat of a battle.

It seems Fo4 is heading towards a thoughtless FPS where one can heedlessly run into battle.

If they add in customization in with repairing gear that will go a long way to not making degradation and repairment seem like an uninteresting chore.

I really want to know where you got this version of NV.

Because, even with harder hardcoe mods, preparation was never needed.

Really? Go through Dead Wind Cavern on hardcoe mode and tell me that. Took me multiple tries to make it out alive. Also countless encounters with cazadores proved to be life or death, especially added the fact that my armor and weapons were constantly degrading.

And if it was no problem for you, don't you think Bethesda should up the ante and improve upon repair and armor degradation rather than gutting it entirely?

Yea, having your weapons and armor deteriorate BEFORE you even get attacked?

That's not realistic nor does it make much sense.

It also doesn't require much thought to carry around duplicate items, which is probably among the reasons repair seems to have gotten axed.

Guns can fire tens of thousands of rounds before they need repairs. I'm not sure what power armor can hold up to but it does still require repairs.

I have, it was incredibly easy given how much damage even the bottom high-tier weapons do, combined with how many +damage perks and stackables there are in the game. I got out of there without ever being touched once. You basically have to try to die in NV, even on very hard or hardcoe.

No, because Fallout is not, nor was it ever meant to be, a hardcoe survival game like STALKER. If I wanted to play STALKER, I would play STALKER again. Item degradation isn't even a part of the series mechanically. Fallout 1, 2, and Tactics didn't have it, nor did they need it to be good games.

You might as well be asking me if I want the game to have hardcoe stealth mechanics like the old splinter cell games did..... OFC I don't. The game isn't, nor was it ever meant to be, that kind of game. If I wanted Splinter Cell level stealth, I would [censored] play Splinter Cell.

Repair is ass, its never balanced, it barely does anything beyond force the player to take 2 minutes teleporting to whatever repair merchant they want and getting their stuff fixed. It adds no real challenge to the game, and this isn't just true in Fallout, its the same thing in EVERY game with repair systems.

It might be. Considering that power armor is using a HUD to the left side of the screen to show armor integrity. And during the final bit of the presentation we saw a BoS Paladin take a missile to the left shoulder like a champ. It's safe to assume that upkeep of these walking tanks will be necessary.

What if it is balanced more? Why gut it? We've all seen Bethesda's record of gutting things until the experience becomes shallow.

The lack of durability in Skyrim caused many armors to become obsolete. It is so one-dimensional and boring if each armor or weapon's use is just based upon which one shows a greater number.

And also the point that Fo4 is not a hardcoe survival game like STALKER is a straw man of an argument. Of course it's not, but that doesn't mean it can't take cues from other games. Bethesda has obviously taken cues from minecraft and FPS games when making Fo4 as they've showed building and tighter gun play.

Taking from Fps games could be a good add....& it could be bad, depending on how they game plays & personally point of view, I thought Skyrim not having a repair was one of its big flaws because after a while I started to just change weapons for fun not because I had to.

What ifs mean nothing. I have heard the "WE FIXED IT THIS TIME WE SWEAR!" from so many devs, only for it to be just as broken as it was before. And since literally no game I have ever seen, no matter the genre or year made, has ever done repair even half-way decently, I struggle to understand why people think its possible for it to be done right THIS time.

The arguments of "why not fix it" and "why not balance it more" and etc. etc. are essentially hollow and lacking in any real substance at this point, because that just isn't possible in many cases.

A. Crafting allows one to make even elven armor just as strong as Daedric and Dragon armor. One can make any armor as good as they want via crafting...... which is a problem.

B. They ARE supposed to be worse. Nothing is supposed to match armor formed from magical alien parts(Daedra), and fragments of Akatosh himself incarnate(dragons).

Just like everything IS supposed to be worse then PA, and everything IS supposed to be worse then combat armor except PA. Its literally SUPPOSED to be that way, not doing so just results in stupid stuff like how reinforced security armor offers the same effective protection as the post-war Enclave made PA in NV.

Now THAT is terrible.

Yeah but Fallout was always about rebuilding....... and killing things with guns. Those things fit thematically with pre-established tenants of the series, and that is the difference. There was never really a big deal about "stuff is really hard to maintain" in Fallout.