I really hope the scaling system for enemies is fixed this time around. I know that scaling is in, but I hope it isn't the insane system that Oblivion had. I think its good that enemies scale up, but if they scale constantly to match your hero. . . well, it kind of defeats the purpose of leveling up, doesn't it. Also, enemy NPCs should have caps that are lower than the caps for the player, AND that make sense. Goblin Warlords should NEVER be twice as strong as a Dremora Valkynaz! And One cave certainly should not house four or five goblin warlords ALL of them seemingly as strong or stronger than a level 40 player character.

What? Is level scaling in? I thought it was out, in fact my finnish video game articel claims that "tason skaalaus" is now out and that areas are set to have a level around them. "Tason skaalaus" litterally means level scaling.

I think it's been confirmed (by GStaff?) that although there is level scaling, it is Fallout 3 style scaling and not the over the top Oblivion style, which is good news. There have been plenty of threads about it so a forum search should point you in the right direction :thumbsup:

I certainly hope so! A reasonable amount of scalling is a good thing, but Oblivion's scaling was so extreme it almost defeated the purpose of leveling you character up in the first place. "I keep getting stronger. . . aaaaand so does everyone else"

NO!! I want no level scaling at all!

I think some level scaling is a good thing.
It's not evil or anything

It's like HDR. It can be terrible if implemented wrong. It can be really nice if implemented right.
It should feel like a natural development.

Oblivion was way way way way off.

I don't recall thinking about level scaling in Fallout 3, which I think suggest that it was so natural that I never noticed it, which is a good thing.

I kinda liked the way it was done in FO3. Oblivion's level scaling definitely was way over the top. Think about it; a bandit trying to rob you for pennies Septims in you pocket , while wearing Daedric armor? Try selling the armor and buy some food and a place to live for crying out loud :rolleyes:

Hear, hear! There should be level scaling, but if you notice it, it's been implemented wrong.

if it does have scaling then ill wait for mods like OOO

There was level scaling in Morrowind you know! You'd meet more Golden Saints and Ogrim at higher levels. Level scaling is not necessarily a bad thing, as long as it's subtle, and as long as it doesn't result in rats and mudcrabs that take several swordswipes before they bite the dust for high level characters.

then dont bother with an ES game go play a linear one

EVERY ES game had level scaling

Yes, the level scaling is closer to Fallout 3 than Oblivion. Which I honestly didn't really notice so that's a good thing.

With the new system with dungeons of different difficulty most of this problem would be solved, part of the problem in Oblivion was that all dungeons was designed to be equal hard at level 1 and 30. So you got goblin warlords with 500 in health and oblivion planes filled with scamps.
Goblins should be pretty low level enemies, same with bandits, then you run into level 50 hostile npc they would not be called bandits but something else, think raiders as low level npc and enclave as high level in fallout 3.

And level scaling, Daggerfall had the exact same level scaling as Oblivion, it worked much better as enemies was from a wider range of levels, you even had a small chance of running into daedrea lords at level 5, happened to me a couple of times. However like Morrowind it lacked high level content.

We will have our answer if a list of places to avoid appears on UESPwiki.

OOO had level scaling as well, but implimented in a much MUCH better way then the vanilla scaling.

Level scaling got left a bad taste thanks to Oblivion, but was VASTLY improved in Fallout 3. Bethesda learned their lesson and they will not repeat it. You can count on that.

Can somebody explain to me how the fallout 3 level scale works, couse i did not played the game

The only thing i really didn't like in oblivion was that level scaling and the x5 attribute multiplayers micromanaging...

Im a fan of the, "certian regions have their own static levels" approach, but as long as its immersive. Morrowind had some level scaling, but who really noticed?
So as long as it works, which it can, i'll be happy with it. If I see another bandit in glass armor... :banghead:

Off the bat, stronger monsters appeared as you leveled. Also some most locks scaled, as well as hacking terminals.

It was just implemented really well and subtly, as it should be.

Though that doesn't mean at level 1 you could go around and find rad roaches everywhere. Some areas were like a minimum level 5 area, and scaled a bit and capped off at like level 10. Like the DC ruins would always have super mutants, and if you weren't equipped well, they would dominate you. But if you cam back at level 20, they would be fairly easy.

An incarnation of Level Scaling is in, and with good reason. The trick isn't removing Level Scaling like some lame JRPG, the trick is making it more intelligent. Different types of scales. Oblivion is an example of the worst kind of Level Scaling, Fallout 3 is a little more friendly, and New Vegas is a little more Morrowind-Like, but with the level cap, it seems a lot better since you can't get 2,000 HP and max all stats twice over.

Early, or frequented parts of the game, should be dynamic and scaling, with attention to things like, NPC's at a town, and making sure something like a Deathclaw/Dragon doesn't spawn twenty levels later wiping out the town. In situations where it's not appropriate to put a level 20 monster in a formerly level 5 area, increase the numerical value of the weaker enemies.


Certain "Trigger" events to cause some scaling would be a good solution too. Just as a theoretical example, in NV, when you Kill the Deathclaw pack leaders (Alpha male and Mother) Deathclaws begin spawning in the wasteland. This works in two ways, first from a mechanical sense, the player killed two powerful deathclaws, so the developer can logically assume that Deathclaws can now spawn around the wasteland, the second, and probably more important way this works, is from an immersive point, explained through the Dialog with Chomps Lewis, the "Pack will scatter", so the player doesn't have to suspend more disbelief, as to why deathclaws "Suddenly" started appearing.


Another good form of scaling, is Base Level + (Player Level x Ls) Where Ls is a % value of the player's level. So that an Area intended to protect powerful Items will always spawn at a certain level (let's say 10) but also scales at a rate of 1 level for every 2 the player is. Preserving progression and challenge, depending on how you want to play. This can be used in many ways, including making dynamically challenging Dungeons/enemies designed to always spawn higher than the player's level (Within Reason). For Example, a Dragon might always spawn Lvl25 + Player Level x 1.10. (so Level 28 if the player fights it at level 25)


Anyway, This isn't a suggestion thread, so.. TL;DR, Some form of Scaling is in, but won't be as bad as the terrible system used in Oblivion. I think a Mix of Fallout 3's dynamic scale, with some of how NV handles it (Static areas such as Nightstalker Caves, Deathclaw packs, ect) is what they're aiming for.

Just so long as they avoid Fallout 3's biggest Level Scaling Problem:

The Bullet Sponges.

"More Difficult" should not equal "Takes Multiple Clips of Ammunition to Kill". Feral Ghoul Reavers and Super Mutant Overlords, I'm looking strongly in your direction!

FO3 was definitely done better. As I recall, there were quite a few place I wouldn't go early on in the game because I hadn't leveled up enough yet, The Mall was one of those places you wouldn't want to go if you were under level 5, also Old Olney, and Bethesda Ruins were pretty tough for a low level character, although I once did accidentally stumble in there at level 2 and came out of it without dying.

Even with the level scaling improved in FO3, you were still godlike by the time you reached level 20. I would hope that it is further improved rather than eliminated.

Sounds good then, not as extreme as oblivion's and much more balanced and thought out

Level scaling never was right.
But Morrowind had it right.

Am I the only player not bothered at all with Oblivion's system?

When you start off the game, you fight low-level enemies. This eases you into the game and story.

As you progress, enemies get tougher to match your skill level. I would hate to have a game where the enemies are a breeze to kill, and by the time you reach level 20 you become a walking tank, and enemy attacks can't hurt you.

Am I missing something?

It kills the feeling of progression and then gives you little incentive to take your time and level up. It also breaks immersion, why would a highwayman need to rob you if he owns a full set of glass armor? It was broken. I want to get destroyed by beasts but I also want the ability to become so good that normal bandits become the equivalent of mudcrabs.