.... :thumbsdown:

Very true. I won't quote Vampheary again, but what he said is also a very good point. Each game is unique in and of itself. I'm glad I get a different game every time. It's refreshing that they try something new in every game. Morrowind was great, but Skyrim can never be Morrowind. Nor would I want it to be. That is over with, it's time to move on. Do I want Skyrim to equal Morrowind in the terms of quality when it comes to presenting culture and lore? Yes of course. But if you're looking behind you you'll never move forward.

I'm personally a huge fan of Bloodmoon, so I'm super excited about Skyrim. : ) I may go back and play some old TES games that I haven't touched yet to make the wait bearable.

Hehe, I'm getting my pc fixed atm, but then I will download Arena and Daggerfall (legal ofc) and buy Morrowind and re-install Oblivion. Then I will play till Skyrim arrives. But until my pc is fixed, I will play Oblivion on my xBox ^^ LIFE'S SWEET!

I hope it will take Oblivion's place as my favourite TES game.

I am hoping Skyrim will be one of the best games of all time.

I don't see how Skyrim can't be better than Oblivion. There was nothing about Oblivion that I liked that Skyrim won't do better, if Bethesda doesn't somehow screw up.

It'll be better than Oblivion, and having in mind the amount of hours I've spent playing it, that's enough for me to buy it without doubt.

The thing is that I can't remove the feeling that the improvements will not be *INCREDIBLY AMAZING!*, but moderately, even lowly amazing. Although I don't know if I'll change my mind when I play the final game.

Wow! Literally I was going to use Todd's example of the Japanese RPG's with my point and I was going to say the exact same thing as you too haha. I agree 100% with what ur saying. They will use logic with their fantasy instead of just saying it's Magic.

And as far as Oblivion bashing goes. I played Morrowind and Onlivion both on console without mods and I loved both games equally. Aspects of each game made them better than each other in different areas. I can only assume Skyrim will have flaws but overall instead of being an individually better game than the other two it will add to the. Amazing series that is The Elder Scrolls.

I cannot know for sure, but the feeling I get so far is that Skyrim is catered to casual gameplay - even more so than Oblivion.
That doesn't mean they're not still trying to improve general concepts, such as the leveling for example - they're obviously trying to find a compromise there.
But they get more conservative, more focused on milking the franchise, rather than offer real innovative gameplay. Have you heard anything revolutionary from Skyrim yet? Something non-cliché? A daring idea? Something that's not been done in other games so far?

And I won't mind, at least not yet, or much.
I loved Morrowind (vanilla), I loved Oblivion (thanks to the mods), and I'm sure I'm going to like Skyrim too, to some extent which will also depend on the mods.

But they can't go on like this forever, otherwise the Elder Scrolls will be just another in a big heap of RPGs.

Problem with companies is they want to make money, to do that they have to sale a lot of product, to do that they have to have a lot of people who want there product and who CAN USE THERE product. So it has to been "streamlined AKA simplified" so that someone without to much mental ability can use there product.

A great example is fable the devs of that game made there game "more STREAMLINED" and so on basically dumbing down to the lowest common denominator to increase the sales. A funny thing is it is not the art of the common proletariat that is remembered for the ages because it is looked upon as a simpletons thing because said things are dumbed down so even the lowest common denominator enjoys them. Like in the 18th century the commons man music was well folk music, but the music of the upper class and nobility was Mozart ect.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5PRKfj_5Oso

Few months ago i didn't believe that anything could be worst than Oblivion but then Arcania was released and set a new low , i am not sure if V is going to beat that but i am sure that they will try hard. From what i have read the game will be farther dumped down , TES series are in decline since DF and i expect this to continue .

You have a twisted and [censored] up mind.

It wont be that hard to beat oblivion

That is awesome. Not the song, that's crap, but the idea behind it. Thanks for sharing. It says a lot.

Sad, but true. I never thought I would live to see the day where I hear that forsaken marketing term "streamlined" and "Elder Scrolls" in the same sentence, but here we are. My all time favourite series is about to be contaminated (further) by the unkempt, groping hands of the mindless masses. I hate to say it, but this is a sad, sad era in video gaming history.

Is this what you want Bethesda? You would rather enjoy a short-lived success, earning yourself a temporary place in the hearts (consoles) of today's undeserving 12 year olds, before you are simply forgotten to the sands of time?

Or would you rather make an original, timeless masterpiece that will stand forever as an eternal monument to your creative triumph not only in video gaming history, but in all of human history?
I think the choice has been made...and it's definitely not the latter.

I don't want Bethesda to sell out on us, although I fear it may be too late.

I certainly hope so. It seems to me that it's all been building up to this. Bethesda seem to be throwing a lot of love and care into this game, and I'm optimistic that it'll be the best of the series, and therefore, the best game ever.

Like it wasn't created as "Skyrim vs Oblivion" to begin with?

"Will Skyrim be better [than] Oblivion?"

Yeah with that title, it was too late the moment the OP appeared. :shrug:

I would like to bet every single naysayer still buys the game. "U ruind gaem bt I stil pay 4 it lolol"

I, for one, think it will surpass Oblivion. I think the devs seem focussed on improving certain aspects of the game.

Tribunal=Morrowind>Bloodmoon>Shivering Isles>Oblivion>Daggerfall>Knights of the Nine>Arena

(= is same as. > better than)

It'll definitely be another step forward. The question is how much that step will cost? Oblivion's streamlining came at the cost of the atmosphere. Let's hope Bethesda doesn't axe to much stuff this time around.

I'm cautiously optimistic that it will be better than Oblivion. From what I've seen of FO3 and New Vegas, it looks like they are making some improvements, particularly with AI and level scaling.

I don't understand where all you optimists are coming from.
So far we have seen: level scaling, fast travel, same size world, 18 skills down from 21, Perks?, the abolition of skills, only marginally better graphics, and no sign of spears or many of the other things missing from Oblivion. Everything points in the wrong direction. Where is the ambition?, the innovation? I'm looking very hard, but so far have seen none.

I don't know. Maybe I'm just being overly pessimistic this time around because I don't want to be let down again like what happened with Oblivion.

I'd be lying if I said that those points you outlined didn't worry me as well. To be honest, I died a little inside when I heard that there were fewer skills, and that fast travelling was making a return (though I hold onto a bit of hope, as I haven't heard specifically how it will be implemented). But I'm also willing to reserve my criticism until I've seen the final product. Like I've said, I've seen improvements in some areas, which is enough for me to give Bethesda the benefit of the doubt and accept the game with an open mind. That doesn't mean, however, that I don't hold a sizeable reservoir of skepticism based off of previous experiences with them 'reinventing the wheel'.

Level-scaling - get your facts right, please. It was there since Arena. Also, it has been confirmed that SK will not use OB's system but F3's which was light years better
Fast Travel - the only game that (partly) didn't have it was MW. Since there are very few advantages of not having it, it being there is a good choice. Optionally, travel services could be there but removal of Fast Travel is a big no
Same World Size - if you have seen screenshots you would know that unlike OB, the world is not an flat place. MW was smaller but landscape made it seem larger. SK's landscape is even more radical so it will leave huger feeling
Number of skills & Perks - number of skills does not equal complexity and if Perks are mixed well, the new system can be deeper then any of older TES games. And if you tried to not watch so narrow mindlessly, you would see what potential TES skill system merged with perks could have
The abolition of skills - as well as their return (Enchant) and addition of some new ones. Don't talk about skills until you know what skills there will be
Spears - unless you can make spears different then the rest of the weaponry (and it should be different: spears mean different combat style then sword usage (YES, MW svcked in that regard: spears should NEVER be just different type of swords)), don't implement them. Resources can be better used elsewhere and since 7/10 people who want them would never use them but would just like them to be there, the demand is ridiculous and childish

With that all said, I am not part of Mainstream but if you think that mainstreaming means dumbing down and making it fit for retards to play then you are narrow-minded. Mainstreaming means just removal of useless stuff and focusing on making other elements better. Lack of atmosphere and bad storyline were a result of laziness, not mainstreaming (even mainsstreamers know how to value atmosphere and story) while Level Scaling was an badly designed feature.
In other words, OB's fault was not that it was mainstreamed (as some elitists love to believe... guess it makes them feel smart) but the fact that development itself went in wrong way (laziness, bad design decisions, biting more then they could chew (aka tried to put too many awesome features and then realized that they can't actually make them all work as intended on time) and some others) as well as experimenting on some new ideas that would improve future games (while sacrificing the current one... part of evolution, just ask Alduin). Blaming everything on mainstreaming is just closing eyes to reality and it accomplishes nothing but irritates the developers who seek to please both parties (RPG developers are rarely part of the mainstream so they wish to to please the other party as well). And yes, if you think about it definitely can make a game that both mainstreamers and hardcoe RPG players would like to play.

As for where do some of us get optimism? Here are mine sources:
1. Fallout 3 - many mistakes from OB were not repeated there which means that they probably won't be repeated in Skyrim either
2. Focus on story and atmosphere - unlike OB which tried to fascinate players with awesome graphics (which ironically it never had in the end... probably because consoles weren't able to handle it) beautiful landscapes and trees, Skyrim tries to do it through atmosphere, story and gameplay. If this doesn't show that design philosophy is completely different from OB's, then nothing does
3. Development in late phases - OB promised a lot, but most of it only in early phases. Why? Because many of those features were cut out (I talked about it above). SK promises the same but since the development is almost finished, those promises seem to be a reality

So really, you all want the old TES atmosphere but modern game mechanics? Sounds awesome, but rather hard to achieve.