Which is exactly why they decided not to list it - because players can be more concerned about the stat than actually doing what's needed to help the team.

If a player is using his KDR to track his progress, what are the chances he's gonna run out into gunfire to revive that Engineer or go arm the charge, knowing that he will be killed in the process? What are the chances that he will defend the frontlines or the objective when the team is out-gunned and out-manned? Players who "track" (or obsess) over KDR, tend to nurse their stats, and avoid dying whenever possible - even when making a sacrifice can make all the difference.

Well, I wouldn't mind it if the game kept track of random, inconsequential stats, like grenades thrown, miles run, hours played, distance fallen, etc. That was something I actually liked about Blops, actually. Those random little tidbits at the bottom of the screen telling you how many billions of people have been killed are pretty interesting.

Still a difference between leaderboards and stat tracking.

And I choose to deny your "/thread"



Yet one major way to know what the team actually needs help with is stats. The objective wheel is all well and good, but (let's assume limited communication) if I know that Doug at the command post is dying a lot and not killing a lot, I can make the assumption that Doug could use help.

I'm not planning on chasing objectives, plenty of players will be and likely competing over some, I plan on doing the objectives I am in the vacinity of while doing what I can to make sure my team stands a chance, something that the wheel won't always tell you.

So true kind of hard to play a team game when all you care about is not dying.

Thank you so much!

And in alot of "objective" based modes in those games the xp you get from the objective is only 2-3 more than a kill so people end up going for kills but I personally never understood being obsessed with a good K/D

Hey man, I have a shiny gold curate star and I never got a turtle... :sadvaultboy:


True, but overall KDR can be misleading. It was the more up-to-date weekly/monthly KDR on the fan-made leaderboards I was talking about. Probably should have clarified...


That it does, and I hate it. I feel pretty [censored] with myself for only being able to put up half the KDR I could in MAG.

I find that if I'm having some crap games where I can't push 1.3, then I start to play more selfishly... I'll be less willing to push, play more defensively, give up any goal of winning and just try focusing on killing times more than I die. I have to tell myself to snap out of it, but it's hard to fight it. And I know a lot of people play the same.

Abolishing KDR means nobody gives a [censored] and will just go nuts for the objective and have fun... there would be times in MAG my team would lose, but almost all of the enemies had a negative KDR... it's because they would push relentlessly, never stop giving us a hard time, getting a [censored]-ton of kills and just die a lot too, and they would eventually break us. It's when people stop playing selfishly and they put the win before their stats that games like this are played the way they are supposed to be... and people like me can have fun without the shackles of worrying about KDR.

Took the words right out of my mouth :thumbsup:

Two things of note in there.

First, you bring up the point that the issue is human, how can you be sure that the problem actually goes away with out tracked stats? You might feel a difference, but it doesn't mean the problem has gone away. On the other side of that, with as many differences in the game designed to draw players away from their KDR who's to say that the lack of stat tracking is what does it in the end?

Second, if the "win" is an indicator of not playing selfishly then why not track wins?

We are selfish with everything we do; it may not seem like it and it isn't a bad thing, but there are selfish motivations. Playing to win is selfish, playing for your KDR is selfish, playing for XP is selfish, playing for fun is selfish. What makes one "selfish" act "right" and another "wrong"?

^this.

IMO the absence of leaderboards and KDR and things related won't solve removing camping habits some players have so might as well have them available in Brink anyways.

That is a very good point and also if a person just goes for kills then thats what he could do it wont necessarily stop anything.

I don't know your definition of "camping habits" so I can only touch on the habits that are commonly considered negative, but sitting in an obscure corner comes down to one of two motives, either you don't want to die because you want to keep a high KDR or you're afraid to try because you aren't good at the game. Removing the motive might well change the behavior.



But just going for kills and caring about stats don't go hand in hand, and just going for kills isn't always the negative that some people want to believe. It's chosing to leave your teammates and ignore objectives that they're trying to stop by removing KDR as a major stat.

If you want to kill you can easily do it near your team, which they try to ensure by bribing you with more XP.

They're treating it as a compilation of possible "solutions" to those issues. If it does stop those behaviors we know that there's a way to stop those behaviors (although we don't know which parts did it, and it could be as simple as chasing those players away).

Wins aren't tracked to deter faction-hopping, I believe. Happened in MAG too, SVER became the "easy-mode" faction.

I gotta say, if my KDR was out-of-sight and out-of-mind whilst playing BC2 I'd enjoy it a LOT more, and be a lot more willing to perhaps die more than I killed, to go nuts & go the extra mile to help the team win.

I believe the "right" selfish act is to play the game the way it was supposed to be played... the intention of the game is to win, to cooperate with your teammates thus earning a lot of XP. Those things aren't selfish because that's what the game is for, it's when you start jeopardizing everybody else's opportunity to win by going for kills or KDR that I guess it could be defined as "wrong" selfish.

not having certain things like stat tracking make this game feel inferior to all the triple A titles coming out, It doesnt necessarily have to be about K/D ratio, it could be your effectiveness with each gun like battlefield games have. (which is really useful and adds to the game)

Arguing and debating features at this point is useless, the game was in beta since like last year, there wont be any changes in the way information is exchanged.
Also Battlefield games like BC2 might have better stat tracking, but it also has TERRIBLE netcode,
The servers usually lag like crazy, the hit detection is terrible, and the average ping in the game is over 100-150.
Often i find myself to be the only person with 60-70 ping, and everyone else in the entire game has 200+ ping. And i end up having to shoot people 2x as much just for my hits to count.

So while you guys complain about things certain games have that Brink doesnt have, remember all those games have their own flaws.

And the person who said "I never really see anybody going around getting kills for the sake of getting kills." in reference to BC2, have you played BC2? did you forget about the hills full of snipers? they did nothing but sit and snipe the entire time, never once spotting an enemy or throwing those recon devices. Even now i can join a game and find half my team sitting at spawn doing nothing , not advancing on a rush map, and only 2-3 of us are actually trying for the objectives.

I imagine most the people posting on this forum are console gamers, but i had BC1 and BC2 for ps3 as well, this issue existed in both of them.

Yeah i personally see nothing wrong with adding the list of stats present in all the other fps's its not gonna break the freaking game. I dont camp or play like a b**** but i still love to see my stats and see how good i have been doing. Some guy said in an earlier post dont add kdr because it makes the game too competitive. Well what about all the competitive gamers? Why does everyone suggest that SD not appeal to a certain part of the market because "they dont like it"? I never make decisions based on how it will affect my KDR doesnt mean i dont like looking at it after the game is over. This is a huge feature for shooters and at least half the market loves it. There is gonna be campers there is also gonna be people not playing the objective its like this in every game and brink will be no exception. Not tracking KDR (or other similar stats) is not going to change this, but it will affect the overall success (sales) of the game. There is no logical reason why all you tight wads want this out of the game it wont effect anything. Its not your game its everyones game and we should all be able to play it the way we want with out you crying about the competition. Last time i checked those tards not playing the objective always lose.... enjoy your win and quit whining. its not like it effects balance ...

from past experiance not having any kind of leaderboard is a bad thing , i play alot of shadowrun and if that game had of contained a leaderboard im 100% positive the game would of lasted alot longer , this game actually reminds me of shadowrun and tf2 combined :celebration:
Anyway on topic , im dont think kdr matters and some people make to much of it , You can argue people camp for kpd but its a small minority , i dont see a problem having your KpD Viewable to the world aslong as they dont make such a emphasis(sp?) on it , they should do stuff like total kills , xp , wins , objectves completed etc , dont bring anything negative into it and exclude ratios , at the end of the day 1 person being a noob camping does not ruin games , if its sch a problem get a party of 8 , its not hard communitys can do this with ease , i used to do it on all new releases , 1. you kick everyones asses and 2. you shouldnt have to worry about people being chuck norris.

TL;DR KpD isnt as bas as people make out but probably shouldnt be viewable.

why are leaderboards such a big deal? so people can charge in with a rocket launcher and try for as many kills as possible on a CTF mode? no thanks you can keep that.

leaderboards arent really needed but your statement makes no sense ... if someone is concerned with their leaderboard then they would want to play as smart as possible and be a good team player as objectives are worth more than kills which would be the best way to get on the leaderboard ... no one seems to realize that yet.

We're talking about K/D ratios specifically, not leaderboards in general. Brink will indeed have leaderboards. It will just have leaderboards that keep track of XP, not K/D.

Right, because people are selfish and will always find a way to benefit themselves more so than others. And I stand by my original opinion that SVER was supposed to be easy mode from the start.

It's good that if you didn't think about your KDR you wouldn't care about it; I can think about it and not care and others care about it even when it's not there. It's no mistake that stat tracking became a part of games and removing it may change some things, how some people view the game, but not everybody.

It would certainly make sense that that would be the "right" selfish act, but everybody has a subjective view of just how much "teamwork" is actually "teamwork" and that's one of the ideas behind stat tracking.

When the games are TDM how many people you kill vs how many times you die (KDR) is relevant to how well you do for the team as far as winning, but it doesn't neccesarily show you as a good or bad team mate.

In Brink the XP stat has replaced KDR, but the amount of XP I earn doesn't tell you how good or bad of a teammate I was either. They're two different stats for two different game modes that track the same basic behavior, wanting to be the best on paper.

i respectively disagree. You could very easily have high xp in brink without doing anything that requires skill. You could essentially run around spamming X (square or w/e buffs on pc) on every person you see and rake in the xp and never once fire your weapon. Sure your helping your team but it doesnt make you good. Most of what SD is trying to do is make people that svck at playing feel accomplished by the increased xp from objectives and things that require no skill like buffing a teammate. How many times have you heard them say "we want to bring all those things that are great about the multiplayer experience to the people that normally wouldnt experience them because of intimidation (aka getting owned)". The problem is for most the long term goals arent gonna be worth it without a stat tracker. If there is no stat tracker then essentially brinks goals are Xp and whether or not you win or lose your match. Xp becomes useless once you hit the level cap and if winning is my only real goal out of a match then the fun factor could go down especially for those who play alone. They can spend a whole 20 mins playing a match just to lose because their teammates were horrible and get absolutely nothing out of it unless they werent the level cap and actually needed xp. Unless you want to be playing with/against the same 40 people every night you should want SD to make all non balance affiliated features to be market based so the game sells and stays interesting. Im starting to think some of you want to play this game alone. Half of these things dont apply to me as im going to play the f*** out of brink regardless and will no doubt have my own team of rl friends to accompany me, but unlike most in this forum i am examining things from more angles than my own. Maybe its time some of you did the same.

-Im a team player , and i dont camp yet i am pro stat tracking (and that includes kdr or atleast total kills). i want the brink community to be bountiful and full of different types of players to test my skills on. This means making some market based decisions instead of just saying well i want this game that i had absolutely no part in producing to be exactly the way i want it to be and not appeal to anyone else.

It's "respectfully" disagree actually, and I was just curious who you were disagreeing with specifically.

Think people are missing the point completely....

"Each to there own" - Comes to mind, Noone in there right mind is going to play there game they way "you" want them too...

Unless you have friends in real life - Or through the net that you know you can depend/rely on, To work together as a team, then your not going to get "Team accomplishments" every round.

Especially with PUGs - The worse thing about Randoms is the Stereo "Leeroy jenkins" types, Those out to completely demolish any sense of working together, just for a cheap quick thrill or to deliberately piss others off ( Kids especially.)

What makes this game so much better from others is the fact off known "What YOU do counts" - So as long as you play the game YOU want, And dont completely f'' it up for others - Then that itself is considered team play.

The objective of any game.....is to win.

Plain and simple.

i would love to know what i do good and what weapon im best with for my own personal use but people can probably still figure out a way to post it up somewhere (ie. gameplays, etc) and brag (or gloat in some cases) about it




here u go donner even though you lock my posts lol but since you are so nice when you do...
:turtle: :banana: (turtles like bananas i think)
i should probably have a permanent link to the forum rules in my sig LOL, just not used to this. my ONLY forum activity exp is 2 rap battle sites

People are correct, removing KDR tracking will not completely remove issues like camping.

What it WILL do is remove the built in incentives to only care about yourself. Once KDR is removed, will people still be as inclined to rank their own K/D score over doing whats best for the team? Probably not, especially when the exp system is attempting to push people the other way, offering lots of exp for team-based activity.

With KDR removed, individual kills lose meaning. If youre going to aim for victory and self improvement in a game, would you rather try to get an arbitrary number as high as possible, or try to win the match?

So not tracking stats makes Brink an inferior game to others? Don't make me laugh.

No one can really say atm whether or not the removal of things such as KDR will have the desired effect on the game since it hasn't released yet.