I can understand Daedra worship, as a least the Deadra manifest themselves in a way that is tangible (it's pretty hard to ignore a great big oblivion gate on your doorstep). It seems to me that the Nine do very little that would lead people to believe, yet everyone seems to take their existence for granted.

I look at the Nords of Skyrim as probably the most headstrong and independent race in Tamriel - surely it would be more realistic if some of them were to doubt the existence of the gods altogether? It makes no sense to me that the Nords in particular would follow blindly...

Thoughts?

I'm atheist in Real life so I hope you have the choice to say "I killing dragons because they're trollin and I don't like that, not because "THE GODS GAVE ME THE ABILITY TO AND IT IS THEIR WILL!" LOL"

Go to chapel, get cured, but only if you've been a good lad. There's proof right there, as part of everyday life. You might not like them, or you could argue about their true nature, but you would have to be supremely obstinate to live on Nirn and say they didn't exist.

There is a strong possibility as I remember there were some in Oblivion. But being that Alduin is heavily influenced in their religion I don't think there will be a lot

http://uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Else_God-Hater

The Nords do not worship the Nine Divines. They have their own thing based around different interpretations of the same gods (which is why I'm excited for this game. Finally, a different group of Aedra-worshipers).

I doubt their will be many atheists. Shezarrines tend to show up in Skyrim often, and they have a lot of myths related to the gods.

well, the avatar of akatosh did manifest and defeat dagon
so theres that
and theres the few times in morrowind where they appear in human disguises

In a universe where there are actual gods that can be directly contacted, atheism doesn't really mean the same thing as it does in real life, does it? ^^

Atheists in real life have a genuine position to stand on. In Nirn? Not so much - they're pretty much fools, given they can actually contact or even summon gods if they try.

Atheist: "You don't exist!"
Mehrunes Dagon: *Squishy* "... idiot."

It would mirror real life more accurately if you had to pay money.

As another thought, would tribal Nords be considered heathens? Perhaps we could burn them at the stake...

This

Not a Atheist. Just someone who, as the name imply. Hates the gods and was trying to provoke them into action.


As for being a atheist in Nirn. Sure, until the moment you summon a Daedra prince. Unlike our world there is proof of existence in Tamriel.

Being an atheist in the Elder Scrolls universe would be like living in the Black Marsh and believing that there's no such thing as Argonians.

true

Not likely. Atheism really only could develop as a belief after the development of science and accumulation of knowledge. In a world of magic, where advanced sciences don't really exist, its not likely atheism would exist either. Basically a belief in gods and spirits were a way to answer questions for which no answers could other otherwise be found.

On Earth, it was only after science could start providing some of the answers to these questions that people even challenged the existence of gods. If you go back 1000 years, there was no one who questioned the existence of gods. Sure, some hated them and were definant of them. Certainly, not everyone bothered to worship them or care, but they definitely believed they existed. That was the ONLY answers they had at the time for things they saw around them.

Back on Nirn, people don't have any scientific answers, only magical ones. They can witness miracles everyday in temples. The events that take place frequently PROVE beyond the shadow of a doubt that their are beings of great power in existence. I daresay that if a giant four-armed "demon" and a fiery gold Dragon just suddenly appeared over any major city on Earth and had an epic battle trashing most of the city and then disappeared, the number of atheists on Earth would drop dramatically overnight.

The TES universe does not allow for such beliefs due to, as said, you can actually contact the gods.

If the story pushes that you are slaying dragons because you have the ability to and need to save the world, I will probably shrug moist if off and play as though I'm doing it because its in my best interest to do so.


@ Falmer: One could argue that magical study is a science in itself. To think them mutually exclusive implies that magic requires some sort of spiritual belief.

Hmmm... I really didn't think this through properly, did I?

And just to clarify - atheism is not a belief system, it is the absence of one.

I'm an atheist, but this doesn't really matter for me. It's not like all of them will tell you about their religion anyway.

Except that in TES, mages generally are taught that magic is the "residue" of Magnus fleeing from Mundus. If magic is the leftover side effects of a fleeing god, then it does actually imply some spiritual belief. Again belief doesn't have to imply worship. You can believe in the existence of ghosts, but doesn't mean you have to start worshipping them or give them even a second thought on any given day.

Im an atheist in real life, but I think that if I lived in Tamriel I wouldnt be.

It would be sort of like standing on top of a bare hill in a thunderstorm wearing a metal helmet to do that, I suppose, in a world where gods are real and do meddle in day-to-day life.

Though of course, the interesting philosophical point is: Can you believe in things that are manifestly real?
I mean, its ok to believe in concepts, like truth and justice. its a framework to base personality and society on.
But can you really believe in pancakes or the postman?
They are there, they exist independant of any belief in them. Contrarely, you can grind the whole universe down and sieve it and not find a single bit of justice or truth. They live in our heads, and it is us that gives them substance, so the belief in them is important.

Religion in Tamriel is a fact of life.
Only two hundered years ago a god tried to invade and was ultimately stopped by another god in the Imperial City.
Do the people of Tamriel truly believe or is it a fact of life that you observe the dictates of the Aedra and are rewarded with blessings?
Much like it is a fact that you have to sign a form when the postman brings you a package.

Considering that the gods make contact with people every day, atheists would be considered idiots on Nirn.

This. IRL, there's no proof that any gods exist - in Nirn, there's proof everywhere.
Denying their existence would only make sense if you live alone in a secluded village in the middle of nowhere.

Atheists. Pshh.

Misotheists are much better. Else the God-hater agrees much. Why try to ignore their presence when you can right out hate them.

She turned out to be Mythic Dawn though.

Well, if you want to bring modern theology into a game. I guess. Atheism is a modern day religion. It's kind of like saying, will there be Buddhism or Christianity. That's just weird. Skyrim should have it's own religions entities.

I really doubt it. TES religions are based on real, tangible things. Their gods are real, physical entities that have been seen by quite a few people, their powers are felt quite often (being cured at a chapel, their blessings making people stronger, etc.). The "gods" of the TES universe, both the Aedra and the Daedra, have fairly active roles within the world. Maybe their presence isn't there at all times, but since the Aedra gain power from the worship of mortals, they need to do things that make the mortals want to worship them. And the Daedra... well they just like to mess around with Nirn, so they're usually quite present in the world in some form or another. I guess there most certainly could be atheists within TES... but they would have to be in some pretty bad denial to not see all the evidence of the Daedra and Aedra's existence.

If anything, I think it's far more likely for there to be people who doubt the powers of the Aedra. There really isn't any doubting their existence, but since they rarely do anything truly extraordinary aside from curing diseases, there probably are people who doubt their power, if not their existence. But then, many of the people who doubt the power of the Aedra look to the Daedra instead, since they tend to make their power quite evident to everyone. The definition of Atheism is not believing in any sort of god or "higher power" but in the TES universe, "higher powers" are very much alive and present throughout the world, making it pretty hard to not believe that they exist.