Will there be a hardcoe mode for SKYRIM. : V - Skyrim

» Tue Mar 15, 2011 1:12 am

hardcoe mode would be nice, and not that hard it implement anyway. It would be a nice gesture to the fans who feel that they simplified the RPG gameplay. Leveling and skills might still be simplified in Skyrim but adding 'hardcoe' RPG elements should shut them up about this not being an RPG anymore

» Mon Mar 14, 2011 6:29 pm

A food bag would work in a game that has an inventory system like the Witcher where you cant carry around more than one set of armour and more than 3 swords but to limit the amount of food you can carry in a game where you can lug around a heap of weapons and armour sets just doesnt seem right. The inventory system in TES games is far from realistic however a foodbag in a TES game just doesnt feel right.

Hmmm now that I think about it, your idea for food expiration dates + food bag = no inventory mess. We can still browse our gear without having 100 different pieces of meat screwing around, and still be able to have them elsewhere (with no number limit then) =]

Actually the food bag can simply be the name for a tab in the inventory, no need to be in a different window or having to press a different button.

» Mon Mar 14, 2011 11:35 pm

hardcoe mode in F:NV was a dissapointment. I thought It would add an element of resource management where you had to scrounge for water and such but it ended up just being a pain where I had to open my inventory to click on something every time my character got hungry. The problem was that there was too much food and water easily available, I never had to go searching for any. Plus its just not appropriate for Skyrim. I mean F:NV was a post apocalyptic wasteland but Skyrim is a thriving fantasy world. There should be plenty to eat and drink there.

There already is food in the game, and there also is a cooking mini game. So adding a ''optional'' hardcoe mode would be great. There would be a purpose to making potions with alchemy and cooking food: heal wounds and stay healthy while your on a 5+ hour adventure before ereturning to civilization.

That is how Morrowind worked for me. I had to sue alchemy when I ran out of potions, I used the flora and fauna to make new ones. In Oblivion I just fastraveld back to a city and then I could travel back ot any nearby location. Iin total I only lost maybe 2 minutes of progress because there were so many damned fasttravel locations around.

» Mon Mar 14, 2011 9:14 pm

I'd certainly like to see fast travel removed. I often try to forgo use of fast travel in Oblivion or Fallout, but I lack the willpower to go totally without. I'd rather not have the option. I'm not saying it should be removed from the game, but in the optional hardcoe mode it should be disabled.

» Mon Mar 14, 2011 5:09 pm

I'd certainly like to see fast travel removed. I often try to forgo use of fast travel in Oblivion or Fallout, but I lack the willpower to go totally without. I'd rather not have the option. I'm not saying it should be removed from the game, but in the optional hardcoe mode it should be disabled.

Yes, and fasttravel from city to city should be allowed. Or even better, fasttravel as soon as your on a main road should be allowed. It makes sense that when your in a civlilized area you should be able to get around rather fast even on foot. I just dont think it makes sense that when your far away on a high peak and you run out of potions then you can then travel back to a city, resock and fasttravel to a cave 5 meters from the peak.

» Tue Mar 15, 2011 1:25 am

I certainly hope so, however if they are going to implement a hardcoe mode for Skyrim it nees to be better implemented than New Vegas.

Since I cant be bothered writing it all out again here are my ideas for a Skyrim hardcoe mode copied from another thread.

First, get rid of fast travel and instead bring back a system similar to the stilt striders of Morrowind that for a fee will allow you to travel quickly between towns, fast travel and hardcoe mode just dont mix, when your character is in the middle of nowhere and starts to get hungry, tired or thirsty and you dont have a bed nearby or food in your pack it is a little cheesy that you can open up the map and teleport to the nearest town, use a bed and stock up on supplies then head back out again with no consequence, if fast travel is removed and the character is out the middle of nowhere with no supplies it forces the player to live off the land and find shelter wherever he can and this is really what a hardcoe/survival mode should be about.

Second, give some foods an expiry date. In New Vegas it was all too easy to load up on supplies at one town to last you on your trips between towns, the sheer abundance of food available made sure that your character would never go hungry and made foraging for food unnecesary, give food an expiry date in Skyrim and it sort of limits the amount of food you can carry without most of it going to waste, sure you can stock up on food for trips between towns however if you plan on spending a long time in the wilderness you will have to hunt and forage food yourself to survive.

Third, have the weather and climate play a role in your fight to survive. We all know Skyrim is a cold place so it would be pretty cool to see certain areas and nights have a negative effect on your stats unless you wear suitable clothing to keep the warmth in. If you want to take it furthe you could also have snowstorms and blizzards kick up at certain times that force your character to find shelter lest he freeze to death.

All of this. It'd be awesome if you'd have to eat, drink, avoid hypothermia and so on. But most of all, PLEASE, Bethesda. Let there be fast travel, sure, the pesky reviewers and casuals like it. But this is an RPG, please ensure TES stays true to reality and include traditional way of transportation as well. Perhaps the thing about it could be that it's way faster than fast travel or something like that. And maybe you could, if you want to, view the scenery as you travel like in Red Dead Redemption. But I don't think there has to be a hardcoe mode for it to become included.

» Mon Mar 14, 2011 6:24 pm

I have a good feeling we'll be getting a hardcoe mode considering how often this topic pops up here. Eventually one of the communnity managers is going to say "You know, the fans REALLY want a hardcoe mode".

From everything I'm reading, we'll be lucky to see a "Normal Mode" where the character's stats even affect the game, or that has anything that more than "resembles" RP elements, never mind "hardcoe Mode". Default will likely be "hand-hold" mode, with no option to disable it, where you can't find an enemy tougher than yourself, can't fail at any task, can't lose your way, and can go anywhere at the click of a button, yet somehow can't seem to maintain any interest in playing a "game where you can't lose".

Maybe I'll be wrong, and the game will be surprisingly good, but so far, I'm getting a bad feeling about this.....

» Tue Mar 15, 2011 2:52 am

can't fail at any task.

Sorry but what do you mean by this? If you svck at the game I am sure you shall fail at many tasks however if you are talking about failing picking a lock or failing to cast a spell based on random chance then I ask you do you really find that fun? I mean I can hardly imagine somebody playing the game then going "Awesome, my spell just fizzled again, hey check this out guys watch my spell fizzle" unless he is using sarcasm to mask his frustration.

Failure should not be decided by a roll of the dice.

» Mon Mar 14, 2011 11:10 pm

hardcoe mode in F:NV was a dissapointment. I thought It would add an element of resource management where you had to scrounge for water and such but it ended up just being a pain where I had to open my inventory to click on something every time my character got hungry. The problem was that there was too much food and water easily available, I never had to go searching for any. Plus its just not appropriate for Skyrim. I mean F:NV was a post apocalyptic wasteland but Skyrim is a thriving fantasy world. There should be plenty to eat and drink there.

I completely agree. I dont think that Howard would let TES become Fallout with swords. And ,since New Vegas svcked so much, i dont think they will try to use elements from New Vegas, especially since they didnt develop it. Let The Elder Scrolls be itself and stop suggesting that it pretends to be something its not. And i know that we are all fans of past games but Bethesda would be shooting themselves in the foot if they were to take steps backwards and include outdated features from older games.

» Mon Mar 14, 2011 9:24 pm

Then also add cannibalism, an alternate foodsource.

» Tue Mar 15, 2011 3:17 am

maybe, but i think it would be better if they make the game so complex that they need a casual-mode for casual players. that or both

casual mod maker LOL, that I would love to see, its like... I don't know.... its like saying the devil can do nice things, if game is complex and challenging then their will be no hope for poor old casuals heheheh

» Mon Mar 14, 2011 9:33 pm

Wait why? What are the benefits of such a system because I really cant see any at all, I would much rather have the outcome of a battle or successful pick lock based on player skill than the roll of a dice. I see no benefits to what you propose and I sure as hell cant see why anyone would want such a feature. Please help me understand why anyone would want this? As far as I can see it is just lazy mode where you just sit there clicking the mouse button and hoping you win.

The point (the way I see it) is not me doing all the tasks, but the character with his abilities (that I have chosen to progress), at my command. That, to me, defines the role in an RPG along with other choices I make. That's the way I've played my RPGs and that's the way I prefer them. It is still up to me whether I succeed or not, as I decide the actions, progress of skills and make all the choices; so it's not just clicking and hoping for the best. And I don't see where the laziness comes to play. Was Morrowind lazy? Fallout? Baldurs Gate? Planescape: Torment? Arcanum? Deus Ex? Even Dragon Age: Origins? etc. What I am asking is not a full fledged diceroll based game, just a better balance between player and character skills (as it is supposed to be an RPG).

» Tue Mar 15, 2011 2:35 am

The point (the way I see it) is not me doing all the tasks, but the character with his abilities (that I have chosen to progress), at my command. That, to me, defines the role in an RPG along with other choices I make. That's the way I've played my RPGs and that's the way I prefer them. It is still up to me whether I succeed or not, as I decide the actions, progress of skills and make all the choices; so it's not just clicking and hoping for the best. And I don't see where the laziness comes to play. Was Morrowind lazy? Fallout? Baldurs Gate? Planescape: Torment? Arcanum? Deus Ex? Even Dragon Age: Origins? etc. What I am asking is not a full fledged diceroll based game, just a better balance between player and character skills (as it is supposed to be an RPG).

So basically the way you play RPGs is you are the king and the character you control is your slave? I guess we have very different ways of playing RPGs as I like to try and step into the role of the character I am playing, the way you play sounds like you would be happier playing RTS games rather than RPGs. But really it is not upto you if you succeed or not, in truth the dice decides whether you succeed or not, the only control you have over being able to unlock a door in Morrowind is the equip a lockpick and click on the door and hope it unlocks, this is really not what I would call good gameplay, it takes no skill, no thinking and quite franky just isnt any fun at all. Now I am not going to tell you how to play your games but going back to the stat based success model Morrowind uses would be a very bad idea.

» Mon Mar 14, 2011 11:07 pm

So basically the way you play RPGs is you are the king and the character you control is your slave? I guess we have very different ways of playing RPGs as I like to try and step into the role of the character I am playing, the way you play sounds like you would be happier playing RTS games rather than RPGs. But really it is not upto you if you succeed or not, in truth the dice decides whether you succeed or not, the only control you have over being able to unlock a door in Morrowind is the equip a lockpick and click on the door and hope it unlocks, this is really not what I would call good gameplay, it takes no skill, no thinking and quite franky just isnt any fun at all. Now I am not going to tell you how to play your games but going back to the stat based success model Morrowind uses would be a very bad idea.

Gee, guess I'll stop playing my way and start doing it your way, the better way!

» Mon Mar 14, 2011 4:54 pm

So basically the way you play RPGs is you are the king and the character you control is your slave? I guess we have very different ways of playing RPGs as I like to try and step into the role of the character I am playing, the way you play sounds like you would be happier playing RTS games rather than RPGs. But really it is not upto you if you succeed or not, in truth the dice decides whether you succeed or not, the only control you have over being able to unlock a door in Morrowind is the equip a lockpick and click on the door and hope it unlocks, this is really not what I would call good gameplay, it takes no skill, no thinking and quite franky just isnt any fun at all. Now I am not going to tell you how to play your games but going back to the stat based success model Morrowind uses would be a very bad idea.

Not a king, a conscience more like. And that way of playing RPGs doesn't - in the slightest - prevent immersing oneself as the character, one just has to take the role and the restriction it offers more into account when deciding what and how to do.

Why RTS? Most of the traditional, and highest regarded (to date) RPGs (like some of the ones on the list I gave in previous post) are characterskilldriven - they're not RTS games but RPGs. :shrug:

A success is as much up to me as it is up to the character. The attempts don't make themselves, the skills don't progress by them selves, the time and conditions around the attempt are not predetermined, the character doesn't find himeslf in the situation by himself, the tools needed for the attempt are not there by default. I decide all the essentials, and what really matters is the skill which progression is also under my say. The diceroll does the job, but there are factors that count in it other than characterskill (for lockpicking: skill, lock level, tool used, luck attribute, etc). All in all, though, it depends on the implementation of the system it utilises - for one example, the visual and mechanical way in which Morrowind handles lockpicking (point lock with lockpick, click) is not the only way (though I don't see anything wrong with it either).

I think Morrowind had vastly better gameplay than Oblivion with its minigames and twitch combat, not because of the presentation, but how it all was handled behind the screen, and think that the best way to handle Skyrim would be Morrowind mechanics combined with Oblivion presentation (everything improved, of course). :shrug:

» Mon Mar 14, 2011 9:58 pm

I would very much like to see a hardcoe mode in Skyrim.

I'm currently playing my second play-through of Fallout: New Vegas (nearly 90 hours played total) and I have chosen hardcoe mode on both. I just don't think I could play an RPG happily without it at this point because it fundamentally alters the decisions you make about when and how to approach each task you set for yourself. It does make the game feel extremely realistic while you're playing because you have to think about things that you'd really have to think about if you were actually there.

I would like to see its implementation mimic that of New Vegas in that you must regularly hydrate, eat, sleep and deal with debilitating injury in a manner consistent with realism (healing mortal wounds etc.).

I agree with the other posters who assert that it should be called something else as "hardcoe mode" doesn't really fit with the fantasy setting.

I understand and accept completely the fact that 'hardcoe mode' isn't fun for many people as it's more simulation and less play in some ways, but for me personally and for a lot of others out there it's the new standard in RPG play and I really enjoy it. I don't think I'd be enjoying New Vegas nearly as much right now without it. All that being said I think they should go the 'optional' route again and give you a choice when you begin your game, perhaps again recommending against it for the average player.

EDIT: Also, regarding fast-travel, I'd like to see that removed for hardcoe mode. I never, ever fast travel when I play New Vegas. The tone of the game world is so much more realistic and satisfying that way.

» Tue Mar 15, 2011 3:23 am

don't know, don't care

» Mon Mar 14, 2011 1:54 pm

I would like it to be optional of course.

It needed tweaks in FONV for sure, but the basis is good.

And I think oblivion/morrowind modders have had similar immersion mods like this before FONV or even FO3 mostly for rping.

I also hated how Obsidian called it 'hardcoe mode', 'Survival Mode' would have been a more fitting name.

» Mon Mar 14, 2011 8:34 pm

I'm currently playing my second play-through of Fallout: New Vegas (nearly 90 hours played total) and I have chosen hardcoe mode on both. I just don't think I could play an RPG happily without it at this point because it fundamentally alters the decisions you make about when and how to approach each task you set for yourself.

I completely agree, I also had to install the Harder hardcoe Rates and Expensive Wasteland mods to tweak the game balance a bit more, but after my first playthrough (160+ hrs), I could never go back to playing without this aspect of it. It actually gives you a reason to be excited about finding some food or water, or a merchant somewhere in the wasteland.

EDIT: Also, regarding fast-travel, I'd like to see that removed for hardcoe mode. I never, ever fast travel when I play New Vegas. The tone of the game world is so much more realistic and satisfying that way.

I also played without using fast travel, which was more enjoyable if you are playing with hunger/thirst/sleep deprivation. It was challenging at times to hobble around with all my legs crippled looking for a bit of water. Due to the increased rates from the mods, I actually died of dehydration a few times. Later, I found this type of experience was also possible in Oblivion with Real Sleep Extended, Real Hunger COBL and Real Thirst.

However, I'd have to disagree about eliminating fast travel as an option. I could care less if fast travel is included or not. I can choose not to click on it, as I do with Oblivion and New Vegas, and it should probably still be available for the millions of consumers who purchased the other Bethesda games and are accustomed to it, or get bored walking everywhere.

» Tue Mar 15, 2011 4:06 am

(GRAZY BRIGHT WALLOTEXT.)

OH MY EYES!

But seriously now, I'd prefer if the game had survival elements, but they must be made in a interesting way and be an option. Some people just don't want those kinds of pesky things, especially if they become chores, not ways of immersion.

About player skill/character skill, I fankly want both affect a lot. For me ideal combat would be really player skill driven though and brutal, fast and very deadly. I want to be able to stab nearly everyone dead fast, but I want to be stabbed death fast if I loose my concentration. This would make the game way more interesting for me atleast.

Well, I can atleast mod the game to what ever I want it to be. Some are not that lucky/don't bother.

EDIT: About fast travel; it needs to have a way to be turned off. Red Dead Redemption was such a great experience because I didn't find out about the camp fast travel before I had completed the storyline.

» Tue Mar 15, 2011 1:35 am

I feel pretty confident that there will be some sort of hardcoe/survival mode. No evidence to back that up - just a feeling

I'm on console so don't use mods, but ones which require you to eat, sleep etc seem to get mentioned on here a lot and it wouldn't surprise me if the devs took note of that.

» Tue Mar 15, 2011 3:05 am

I feel pretty confident that there will be some sort of hardcoe/survival mode. No evidence to back that up - just a feeling

I'm on console so don't use mods, but ones which require you to eat, sleep etc seem to get mentioned on here a lot and it wouldn't surprise me if the devs took note of that.

I hope you're right

I'd rather play on console too (just for achievements really) but would definitely switch to PC if they don't include something like this. Only thing is I'm worried about is the general trend of late for RPG makers, eg. Bioware, to go the path of lowest common denominator like it's the way to success. Really hoping this doesn't happen to Skyrim.

» Mon Mar 14, 2011 9:38 pm

I feel pretty confident that there will be some sort of hardcoe/survival mode. No evidence to back that up - just a feeling

Since cooking is one of the crafting activities that has been confirmed, I suspect the devs have something like this planned. There is not much point in setting up elaborate game mechanics and animations for cooking food unless eating serves a purpose.

» Mon Mar 14, 2011 11:19 pm

More realism = better.

» Mon Mar 14, 2011 9:11 pm

Third, have the weather and climate play a role in your fight to survive. We all know Skyrim is a cold place so it would be pretty cool to see certain areas and nights have a negative effect on your stats unless you wear suitable clothing to keep the warmth in. If you want to take it furthe you could also have snowstorms and blizzards kick up at certain times that force your character to find shelter lest he freeze to death.

This is a very interesting idea... I would love to see this implemented.