I doubt i will be porting my resources, the graphics will probably be way better, meshes and textures, like the gap between Morrowind and Oblivion, or Oblivion and Fallout. TES5 will be another step forward, so we'll have to step up our game too.

I hope you are right about this. But...the modding community is PC-centric and tends to conveniently forget that we, for good or ill, live in a console-centric world. Whatever Bethesda does with TES5, it will need to run on current-gen consoles, the PS3 & XBox360. So far as I know, those are tied to DX9. While I can see token DX10-11 support for the PC version, I sadly don't see it as the main thrust. And don't forget that the vanilla game will need to run on a 360 sans hard-drive. In other words, I suspect that, to some extent, TES5 improvements (over TES4) will be limited to accomodate console usage. That's not so say that there aren't significant improvements that can and hopefully will be made. I just don't expect miracles.

To return this thread to something like its original intent, I have a few related questions that apply to modders only. Bearing in mind that TES5 is a total unknown at this time, and anything said here is pure speculation...assuming TES5 is modable, do you plan to:

1.) Totally abandon Oblivion modding once TES5 launches?
2.) Finish any and all TES4 mods in development before switching over (or work with both concurrently)?
3.) Abandon in-development TES4 mods but continue to provide updates/patches/support for already-released mods as needed?
4.) More or less continue modding TES4 as you do now?
5.) Something else?


-Decrepit

In my case, I'll continue to work on the projects I'm currently involved in regardless of the arrival of TESV or not. As to whether I continue to mod TESIV once they're done will be solely dependent on if I feel like doing any more modding for it. ATM I don't think I'll be starting any new mods, I'm addicted enough as it is.

I'm not a fan of TES games or anything, I just got gifted Oblivion for my birthday by a friend, and SI by a forum member (I just realised that I haven't personally spent a penny on Beth :huh:), so I might not even get TESV if I don't think it's a good game. I didn't get FO3, because I don't like the look of it, and from everything I've heard I can't see it being worth the money I would spend on it. I only spend my money on games that I'm sure will last me a very long time, or that are (IMO) very high quality (apart from Crysis, I got that because it's so freaking pretty - though it's lasted fairly well so far despite its flaws). If TESV doesn't fit those requirements, I won't get it.

Oblivion's a good game, and mods make it a fantastic game, but just because Oblivion's good, doesn't mean that TESV will be of a similar quality or anything - I'm just going to take things as they come. The one thing we can rely on from Beth is good mod support.

I don't see the resource stats (polycount/texture res) getting much higher between TES 4 and TES 5. I think we're close to the sweetspot now. I do think we'll get some related stuff like specular mapping and be able to handle more crowded scenes so I suspect porting user made models/textures will be common.

I'll definitely port Viconia.

As much as it would be awesome if we could, they'll probably finally make a new engine for it, which would likely be semi-inspired by some of the most game-changing mods out there, or at least fix similar issues as those mods. And if they make a brand new engine it'll probably be impossible to port over, but it can't be that different, so the best modders out there will surely be quick to boss things out again.

I think the reason Beth is waiting so long to start developing TES5 is that they would rather wait for the next generation of consoles and make a truly spectacular game instead of being limited as they would be if they made it now.

1) It really depends on whether or not TES5 captures that same open ended and addictive gameplay experience.
2) I would probably try and stay loyal until all my work was done.
3) I'd like to hope that I'd be that responsible. xD
4) Probably not?

I believe its already in development. It takes years to make massive game like this. Oblivion was released in March 2006, Fallout, October 2008. If we say conservatively that it takes 3 years (although id go with 4) for Beth to make this kind of game... well you do the math, it means TES5 should be done by the end of 2011.

Next gen consoles are due for 2011/2012, it means that they dont need to be that conservative content wise.

madmole, could you link something that shows that TESV is coming in 2010? cause I'm having a reaaaaaaally hard time believing that

A lot of mod I run are there to overcome vanilla Oblivion weaknesses, so the only thing I hope is that they won't be needed in TES V .

As for 2011/2012 for next gen consoles, isn't that a bit optimistic? I mean Sony isn't making a benefit off their console sales yet...
And I don't think the next gen will be that spectacular frankly, probably less blurry textures(but we already got that on PC) and maybe slightly more detailed meshes but I wouldn't hold my breath...

Next generation console SDK's aren't even developed/released and we know Beth is working on 'something' so I'm less inclined to think they're holding their breath for the XBox720/PS4. Still possible though. If an ES game 'is' being made now I'm quite certain its on Beth's version of the GameBryo engine and even with updated animation and AI (hoping for Havok here) I'd say we'll have the usual CS, scripting, NIFs, and DDS toys to play with. Personally I've lost all interest in modding for OB. I want some updated technology to explore. I want buildings with shadows and animations driven by complex skeletons with IK. If Beth comes thru I'll sign on to contribute again. Maybe even join a big team this time (as sub-junior-base-modeller-in-training).

I'll just wait and see. More than likely the new combat system will need some work. I doubt I'll be porting UV directly though, since it relies heavily on OBSE. I'd expect to start writing a combat overhaul fairly quickly, but it will depend entirely on the level of accessibility and whether or not we'll need a tesv script extender (more than likely). Anyway, I'll certainly be modding it, and I'll continue to save for my "new PC for TESV" fund

NifScript won't happen unless the NifTools team updates Niflib for it (and they haven't updated Niflib in years and the project is currently listed as inactive). ARES... maybe. But it would likely require a script extender to work.

Anyway, I'm rather hesitant about TES5. It was deeply disappointed with Oblivion. I don't enjoy playing the game. Modding it, yes, because the editor is rather good, but I really don't enjoy the game. The world is not polished or consistent or cohesive, and that absolutely ruins my immersion. Nevermind consistency with the lore of previous games (which Oblivion does lack in a very large way), but Oblivion can't even stay consistent with itself.

On the one hand, there is reason to suspect that this was not what Bethesda wanted; looking at the history of Oblivion's development, something went very wrong with the engine and Radiant AI at some point, and I suspect that they had to overhaul or redo an awful lot of work. Consider how much RAI was touted to do when it was new, and how much it got pared back. There were apparently significant engine problems much later into development than planned, and fixing those cut into the time allotted for content creation, which leads to the problems I have with the game. As madmole said, they tend to release on time - even when they shouldn't.

But at the same time, a lot of the things said by Todd Howard and Pete Hines concern me. The success of Oblivion - despite its myriad failings - concerns me. It would seem that Bethesda does not need to polish their world as nicely as I would like (as nicely as they did in Morrowind), and still make huge sales. Lack of direct competition is definitely part of it - they do have a reasonably unique product - but part of it is just that they're a mainstream developer working with a franchise that started out as very niche. Where things may have once been about producing the best game possible, maximizing profit definitely seems to not be merely the primary objective, but the only objective.

What version of NIF format is current @ GameBryo? Niflib supports F03 and other, newer games doesn't it?

Looks like criminal scums in this thread gonna have to PAY THE FINE.

Also, Bethesda needs to step it up on their engine- I don't think the current one can get the job done, oh and lore it up some more.

Totally agree.

Oblivion got so much issues, its the best bug compilation ironically working with hardware.

Many rpgs were called next gen, but still none of them delivers full animation of all Player & NPC actions.
best example in oblivion is harvesting, pushing the space bar, and thats it?
grass doesnt move, trees cant be cut, blabla.

to be honest, I think Oblivion is the best but last part of TES. Since when is Bethesda known for phenomenal advance?

PS: If ever someone from Beth is goin to read this, please stop creating those kiddies rpg, why is it that a game series like elder scrolls,
is definitely not a rpg for elders that grew up with games like ultima, is there no game business for advlts?
cant I play a rpg without havin to feel like a kid in wonderland? or is that rpgs arent for advlts at all? maybe i should stick with frogger.

I'm partial to agree with some of the points DragoonWraith brings up in page 2. many of the issues that Beth had with developing their first nextgen game should hopefully be absent from TES5. Obviously they'll proably introduce new ones. Judging by F3, TES5 will be hoepfully be modable. 50% of those big limitations Ob modders face, are already removed in F3. so lets keep it going in that direction. they've heard us moan, they've heard our heads bang for solutions, and clever modding workarounds. they'll hopefully have things we wished and tried as modders to accomplish with Ob. the whole hair, ear, helmet, facial hair, works in F3. you can use different bodies on races. Alpha sorting seems to work better for me in fallout. and so on. On the whole, it is more intelligently put together

I am a bit over hyped about tes5.

meo said-

Its takes a few years yes. You have to realize Fallout began some form of developement back somewhere after Bethesda aquired the license for Fallout. Back in 2004 or 5 iirc.
F3 has likely been in some form of developement for maybe a year or 2 before ob was released. Your math is obviously way off.

The team released Ob in 2006. then one year later they released SI in 2007. Which only took the 1 year of actual world building as the years of programing and what not had already been done.
a good year later Fallout was released. With some big tastly in house improvements to the engine and newer nif format.

The studio has grown large. they have a lot more man power.

So 2010- 2011 is still very feasible.

Nextgen consoles are NOT coming in 2011/2012. thats a given. Where you got that estimate is either several years old or just poppycock.
The production values of games have skyrocketed recently. So there is a camp that believes that even when the 8thgen consoles are here, the studios budgets/dev time might be similar to now. and the games will be as well. I can see the logic. even with DX11 and the better hardware. things will probably look a lot like crysis does, even in 3-4 years time. I'm very interested in the next gen of consoles. but by all reputable sources, there porbably won't be one on till 2013- or even 2014.


Point1- Gmaebryo supports the latest dx11 and shader model and all that jazz. rtfm. It doesn't matter anyway, because TES5 is being developed for the current platforms, ie xb360. and as such will likely not have dx11 support.

point2- I don't understand that. How is that supposed to delay Bethesda trying to get another product out on the, currently good market for them? oblivion uses a fairly outdated engine. and the game itself does have some programming issues. some outdated LOD algorithms, bland shaders... it looks ok. but tbh it is knocking on. especially from what I've seen from F03. While again flawed it is going in the right direction, if you think oblivion, but just better in 50 ways .


There was a mention of a 2010 release date of TES5 involved with The Infernal City book release. the publisher accidently put something to that effect on their website, and it was quickly removed. or something like that. Needless to say, TES5 may not ship in 2010. But I think it is not far fetched at all. They ARE currently developing it. listen to any recent interview with Todd. Seems they are handeling.

From what I understand, when Morrowind was near the middle/end of it's development and release, the team split and half finished Morrowind and half started Oblivion. If that's true, I could see how that would carry on. Explains how Fallout got out the door fast, and how TES5 might as well.

I think people knock Beth too much, though. I went insane from all the awesome Fallout proved to hold. I admit, I found the story lacking (I was more of a bullet in dad's head guy) and the world a little small, but the gameplay itself was amazing compared to Oblivion. I found that with Oblivion, I need a hundred-fifty mods to be satisfied, and with Fallout less than 75.

Beth is making large amounts of progress. Whether or not they incorporate stuff like Umbra and Lightsprint is all them, but I rest assured it probably won't be another Oblivion all over again. I remember back when I played Morrowind and was hearing all about the RAI, and all the amazing stuff it could do. And that was back when people lived their entire lives within a ten foot radius (in game, I mean). So even nerfed as it was I was astounded at what I did get.


Happy customer, here.

My current project (just pulled it out of hibernation) isn't strictly Cyrodiil-based, so with a few modifications, a port wouldn't be too much trouble... Assuming there was support of the idea

...from gamebryo site explaining the new gamebryo lightspeed engine:

Terrain System

LightSpeed's cross-platform Terrain System is integrated with the runtime. It includes complete support from the tool chain and is complemented by a WSIWYG Terrain Editor. Features of the Terrain System include:

* Dynamic LOD: The terrain runtime adds detail when closeup terrain patches are rendered, and removes detail when far-away terrain patches are rendered. Normal maps for distant terrain are automatically generated from the height map.

DYNAMIC LOD is not TESSALLATION!! Rtfm!! Its definitely NOT DIRECTX11.




Because, as I wrote a few lines beneath, support counts! Blizzard is still developing patches for Diablo 2, this is costumer support,
and its very likely this will have impact on what games going to be bought sooner or later, ...hopefully.
Everyone agrees in that Oblivion does still have a lot of glitches which disrupt the overall gameplay experience noticeably (lighting issues, CTD's, stuttering, pop-ups, strange gfx effects, etc.)
Of course it is no must, but wasnt customer king?

1) No, I will continue to support my mods where necessary.
2) I haven't started any new projects to avoid this.
3) There should be none in development at that point, but yes I will continue to provide support for currently released mods.
4) Nope, I have no intentions of starting another large project for Oblivion, before or after TES V's release. Unless TES V turns out to be not moddable at all, in which case maybe.
5) I might do some very small things (Like the Taunt Valen Dreth mod I started a while ago) but no more large projects.

Well thats told me then :rolleyes:

I quote "Crucially, LightSpeed now features full support for the new Direct3D 11 renderer ? a part of Microsoft's DirectX API - allowing a preview of D3D11 rendering support, including support for real-time tessellation.
"

California-based game engine group Emergent has ANNOUCED a trio of key updates to its flagship Gamebryo LightSpeed engine. Yes, of course it will be implemented, everyone appreciates that,
but what does this have to do with TES V, if released end of this year? this was all my statement was about, I didn't say gamebryo wouldnt have those key features at all.

PS:
Strange, as it seems gamebryo has not updated the feature description list of its gamebryo engine.
the news telling that gamebryo ls will support directx11 is from 10/09. maybe the job cut was just too much.

:facepalm:

I think the OP is just mean. I am still hoping that gamesas will make the perfect game, which won't need any mods to be enjoyable. Like Morrowind, in my opinion.

I'm so naive.