Actually, the crab isn't that far from the sea as one might think - http://www.imperial-library.info/maps/map-morr-enormous.jpg, although there are some hills that separate it from the sea. Considering the fact that Vvardenfell has very vivid history and there is a giant volcano in the island's centre... Also, we don't know much about emperor crab at all (it's ANCIENT, right?).

BTW it's gone now, as is Ald'ruhn. Skar was rewoken but eventually destroyed in the Oblivion Crisis (http://pnmedia.gamespy.com/planetelderscrolls.gamespy.com/fms/images/potd/3826/1171408430_fullres.jpg) by the Daedra, so you can include time distortion in your mod ;]

All crabs and lore aside (desert Argonians? ;/), I like your canyon, but more as modder's resource. We rarely see new environmental models nowadays, so it's always a good thing. How about creating a more concept-art-friendly Gnisis after you are done with Ald'ruhn? http://www.imperial-library.info/gallery/mw_TAoM_p12.jpg. It could be a cool little town...

Some general thoughts about lore and new concepts for Morrowind:

First, this is a PC game and it was made in only a few years, so it is just a lore concept and not something that has grown over decades and centuries like in real world. If something isn't mentioned in the scrolls, stories etc., that doesn't necessarily mean it is not lorefriendly or has no right to exist. Bethesda gave us just some framework, but in my eyes there is much space left to and add new content. Why can't there be new races? Even in our world, with scientists crawling into any gap on earth, still new liveforms are discovered and others that were thought dead for thousands of years show up again.

Let's take for example my desert Argonians. As we know from our world lizards can live in any given terrain, except from areas of ice and snow. So why can't there be a subrace of the Argonians that lived for a dozen of centuries in the deserts of the ashland and has adapted physically to that landscape. This would be natural. Same I would do for Khajiit. Why is there no Snow-Khajiit or Sabertooth-Khajiit on Soltheim and Skyrim? Because it wasn't mentioned in the lore? Wouldn't it be awesome to experience a wild tribe of those creatures and go hunting with them or join a fight clan against clan. Yeah, that definately would be awesome, but it isn't written in the lore.

I personally don't care much about lore, because it is like shackles for my creativity and if I'd cared for it, 99% of my work for MW would have never been done. Maybe I was retexturing misc items or furniture instead, LOL!!!

PS: There will definately be a desert-Argonian race and much more new stuff. I'll show you guys, what you can make out of a city if you give a "youknowwhat" about lore and in the end you may compare with any lorefriendly modded city and tell me which is best!!!


TheDaywalker:rock:

Is that really Ald'Ruhn ? It's very unsual. Hm, very.

Interesting Design, TDW. But let me finish the translation of my New Ald-ruhn first, ok ?

@Mercarryn: No worries mate, this project will definately take me a few month, so you should have plenty of time for your translation!!!

Here come the first ingame shots of the canyon. I made a video too, but due to some floating around tiles and bad constructions I can show it earliest in some days!!!

http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/2171/16736486.jpg
http://img715.imageshack.us/img715/5863/82891928.jpg
http://img63.imageshack.us/img63/6369/50711480.jpg
http://img709.imageshack.us/img709/4103/92408887.jpg
http://img522.imageshack.us/img522/6696/12875693.jpg
http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/7748/22568432.jpg
http://img693.imageshack.us/img693/1659/46892885.jpg
http://img690.imageshack.us/img690/6697/94586079.jpg


Made an oilwell out of the MH_water_spray, but although my texture is pure greyscale and all material is set to black, still some blue comes through, no idea why that is???

http://img683.imageshack.us/img683/5597/34870997.jpg

PS: While ingame I noticed that the most interesting points of view fro the canyon are from high above. So I will make a lot of wooden stairways and climbable ladders, so you can always get up to the top of the rocks and view the canyon from several different angles.


TheDaywalker :rock:

Actually, I believe that "newlore" in the best mods gets made up all the time. Those modders often handle it by creating new books as part of their mod that explain the apparent inconsistencies OR through dialogue these modders have created for the characters to do that explanation. For example, for your desert Argonians you could search the imperial library for Argonian history (http://www.imperial-library.info/fsg/brendanarticle1.shtml) and then have a new book or NPC discussion that expounds further the existing lore (i.e. different branch of the Argonian "Mother tree" or "Hist") AND attention is drawn to that new book in some NPC's dialogue so the PC user will read it. Often when modders do this they also place copies of that same new book in other parts of MW where you would expect them (i.e. Secret Library in Hall of Justice, etc.). You could also do something similar to fix your "crab" problem (i.e. to explain why it is now buried or gone). This could be another way to satisfy your creative outlet. Only providing this to assist you in getting those who are particular about not using lore incorrect mods to then give yours a try if a goal is to appeal to the widest MW audience and thus get the best utilization of MW users for your mod.

It's good to see you're back. I like your new fire and passion for projects now. :bowdown: Sometimes a long break is all that is needed to rekindle the flames.

so.. Is this going to remove all of the original Redoran architecture in Ald-Ruhn besides Skar?

@skydye: Thx mate, originally I wanted to quit modding forever, but yet after 2 weeks I had to work with CS again. Maybe this is a severe addiction, LOL!!!

@skc: Yap, definately!!! Nothing shall remind of the vanilla city, except the interiors!!! There are enough other mods out already that change textures or little details. Time for a completely new approach!!!


TheDaywalker :rock:

Will Ald'Skar still be making an appearance in this mod?

The canyon is indeed eye candy! I choose it over the crab

Wow, when you say major make-over, you're not kidding. :shocking: Looks amazing!

You know, the way your canyon twists and turns throughout it's architecture the way it does, using shells might not seem as out of place as it seems. The problem is simply that too few, all scattered on the bottom would look pathetic and out of place. I see the problem there.

However, this style - I think - would lend itself very well to the similarly curved shell houses originally used in Ald-Ruhn. A synthesis of rock and shell would look fantastic. You might not like the idea still but let me at least try to get my vision across here so you see what I mean:

Picture a canyon wall elevated off the ground with 3 arches. In each arch is a "shell house". Maybe on a higher, flat plateau there are some in a circle configuration.

Like in this picture here:

http://img715.imageshack.us/img715/5863/82891928.jpg

Imagine that rock "bridge" near the top leading to a large alcove. Inside might be another shell house. The rest of the alcove could have odds and ends, and the whole thing decked out with one of your leather overhangs.

Ok, so I'm probably doing a terrible job explaining this. I think the synthesis look would actually look really good, exotic, and be both lore friendly and allow you your radical design making everyone happy.

Either way, best of luck.

It looks good. But also, wouldn't you need to change the interiors somewhat? The interiors would look like shell and the outsides look like stone?

@Tsetra: Thx for your effort mate, but there won't be any shells in that canyon. I'm tired of the old architecture and wan't to try something new. But as this mod will also be a ressource, you may make your own Version of the canyon lateron!!!

@Cosmar: I have thought about that too, but I can't just retexture the interiors, cause all Redoran interiors would look like a canyon after that. I'd have to make new objects with unique IDs and I haven't planned that at this stage!!!


TheDaywalker:rock:

First ingame video of the canyon!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ps-WNjtXb_E


TheDaywalker :rock:

What the hell? :blink:

Well, you really turned Ald-ruhn upside down. I can't recognize anything of the former Redoran capital. And what about this cableway ship???

looks good, but I noticed lots of texture seams when you were going through the tunnel. I don't know what program you used to make the rock texture, but I know that GIMP has a 'make seamless' filter, and I would imagine that photoshop has one as well.

The texture seams will be covered by other objects lateron. I could have made a seamless texture, but the problem is, if you tile the texture the differnt stone shapes of the texture form symetric ornaments, that repeat after and after on the model and look really odd!!! So I chose the minor glitch of both.

The cableship will be playable til release, just need someone make a positioning script for me!!! The animation doesn't loop, if you go on from cell to cell. So in theory you should be able to travel the whole continent this way without problem.


TheDaywalker :rock:

Sounds interesting. The idea of a "City makeover" beyond just retexturing or adding a few new buildings seems like a cool idea. Looking forward to see how this turns out; I think it would be cool if the city is actually in a canyon, and some buildings were built up into the walls of the canyon, and built on top of each other like they're narrowly crowded into the canyon.

@SMUG_BIRD: I'll see what I can do, still have to make a lot new models!!!

After some thoughts on the vegetation inside the canyon I decided, that I want to have something like a garden with some green as contrast to the pale color schemes of the whole landscape. I don't like trees on the open wides of the ashland very much, like leafy Morrowind does, but I think a single garden is ok!!! Made you some CS screenies!!!

http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/7522/gardenl.jpg
http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/3742/garden02.jpg
http://img130.imageshack.us/img130/5427/garden03.jpg


TheDaywalker :rock:

Adds a lot of life to the canyon and reminds me distinctly of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canyon_de_chelly, one of my favorite places in Arizona.

The Idea of Desert Dwelling Argonians is plausible, but I don't think they'd live anywhere near Dunmer settlements. Also, remember that Ald'Ruhn is the seat of House Redoran on Vvardenfell. For that reason it's a rather important city. Please, don't change that fact. Also, I'm still not sure how I feel about the removal of Ald-Skar.

OMG, can't stand this anymore, here you got that dang crab thingy, now shut up please!!! :facepalm: Now you lore freaks owe me one: No discussion on the next thing I do, which isn't lorefriendly, that's the deal!!!:D

http://img522.imageshack.us/img522/6671/skar01.jpg
http://img704.imageshack.us/img704/5869/skar02.jpg
http://img710.imageshack.us/img710/6791/skar03.jpg


TheDaywalker :rock:

Was putting the crab really that bad? I can see a shipwreck there, so why would the crab (An Important part of Ald'ruhn) be out of place? Also, I'm not complaining, I like what you've done so far, but aren't you also worried about conflicts? I mean, with how radically you've changed the entire city, there's bound to be several.
I do love the new Ald-Skar, and I WILL download this, regardless of whether or not you decide to keep the crab (It's your mod after all), as I'm sure it will be an amazing place to explore