(WIPZ) Morrowind heads update project

Post » Sun May 05, 2013 3:57 pm


I guess you must discover this on your own, and not only height but "depth" too,
mabye you should bring down the part of neck that will connect with the head instead,
you would get a kind of universal template for all heads
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TIhIsmc L Griot
 
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Post » Sun May 05, 2013 10:30 am

I'd suggest just to create some Test-NPC in CS, open the head.nif in Nifskope and edit the transform properties in there, save, refresh cell in CS and the head should move to it's updateted position.

Else do it inside 3ds max, there has to be a menue for the exact x,y,z coordinates as well. Subtract the body from the total height and you have the values it has to be away from 0,0,0

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Danial Zachery
 
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Post » Sun May 05, 2013 12:38 am

The problem with position is that the skin modifier in BB meshes complicates everything to a point it`s not workable. If you turn off the skin modifier for, say, chest area, the mesh moves out of scene and rotates by 90 degrees. I tried turning off the skin modifier, moving the verts and turning the skin on. No go. I tried copying/deleting the skin, editing the mesh and pasting it back - no go. Vertex normals get all screwed up. I tried using morph modifier, working on a clone and morphing the skinned mesh. No go. Basically, everything I tried so far ended up with no viable results. Since I`m not an experienced mesher, I basically ran out of options. That mesh is unworkable for my current skill level.

I hoped there would be people interested in this who could offer a hand, but maybe my excitement didn`t quite pass on to others. My only solution now, before quitting this project, is finding someone who speaks Russian. I saw on some russian forums that they are actually updating BB meshes and releasing new versions, so maybe someone could help me contact them.

In the mean time - http://i1182.photobucket.com/albums/x443/PxelSlayer/nord.jpg is done...ish.

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lolly13
 
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Post » Sun May 05, 2013 9:50 am

Here is the website of the person who uploaded a Russian version on Nexus. He posts in English so he could probably help you.

http://fullrest.ru/forum/forum/273-plagini-ot-olol/

or you could message him on Nexus under ZWolol.

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Haley Cooper
 
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Post » Sun May 05, 2013 3:00 am

Well to prevent things like this, i mostly join those with some dumy mesh witch is positioned at 0,0,0 (the joined mesh inherits postion and rotation of the dummy)

im talking about blender btw, never really worked with skinned stuff in max
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Emma Parkinson
 
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Post » Sun May 05, 2013 6:30 am

Well, I might be jumping overboard here, but - would you care to give it a try? I can send you the base head, basically everything is ready, so...yah. Of course, if you can`t/won`t, I`ll understand ;)

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Wanda Maximoff
 
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Post » Sun May 05, 2013 2:58 am


Well my GPU died on my main workstation, would need some time to DL and install tools on my laptop witch is kinda pain because i have terribad connection here,
could check it then, but what do you want precisely?
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elliot mudd
 
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Post » Sun May 05, 2013 8:14 am

Skin modifier, what does that mean in 3ds max? If it's just the one that binds the mesh to the armature (skeleton), why don't you simply unparent the mesh from that. Nothing will jump around or turn then anymore. Max should also be able to import geometry and skeleton separate from each other. Even Blender can do that! :tongue:

If it still doesn't work let me know, in Blender this is really no big deal. :wink:

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Nicola
 
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Post » Sun May 05, 2013 7:11 am

There`s only one thing I need help with - lower the neck vertices on BB to fit the neck vertices on my head mesh, export, rebuild and that`s it. Granted, easier said than done, but still - I`ll go through all races, both genders, make unique head morphs, paint textures, animate the heads, heck even fiddle with hairs (try to make them phisiqued, maybe whip up a couple of new ones). This is just that one pebble in my shoe that I just can`t get rid of and is driving me up the wall, you know. That one darn thing that keeps everything from moving on.

Right now I`d accept help from ANYONE, TBH ;) Also, I haven`t really found a "skeleton.nif" inside Morrowind. It uses skinning, but as for that particular .nif, it seems there isn`t one there. So, skinning wise, Morrowind is quite different than Oblivion or Skyrim.

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Valerie Marie
 
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Post » Sun May 05, 2013 1:31 am

Morrowind has a bodyslot system by default. Movement is managed by the base animation, which has a corresponding .nif, forgot the exact spelling. Skeleton came first, when BB was implemented IIRC.

I'm on my crappy laptop at the moment, cause PC is still packed from my moving into a new appartment. I'll try to get it set up til weekend, then I might have a look at your work. Not going to start modding MW again though...I retired a while ago. :wink:

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JaNnatul Naimah
 
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Post » Sun May 05, 2013 2:29 pm

What would be freakin' sweet is if we could get someone to make a new body model and animations using the potential of OGRE3d's animation systems for use with OpenMW. Like so that it could be custom made to work with these heads which look amazing.

I think better bodies is starting to show its age and a body replacer/enhancer that supports the original engine and skeleton/animations can only look but so good anyway. If modders started to make assets that threw backwards compatibility out of the picture and were meant to be used with OpenMW or other engine projects, that'd be pretty fantastic. Also very ambitious, and requiring of specialized skill. But then again, so does coding an engine or rebuilding Morrowind's mainland.

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Sara Johanna Scenariste
 
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Post » Sun May 05, 2013 11:20 am

Better Bodies were a great, welcoming change in Morrowinds visual overhaul, and I`m sure the team that worked on it did their best to make something that looks good, especially if you take in account just how...BAD...vanilla Morrowind characters and body setup system were. Making a new body replacer would be nothing short of a technical nightmare, trust me. You have body slots, which means you have to separate the mesh/cut it in fitting pieces, which leaves visible seams. Since vanilla Morrowind dosen`t use normal maps, you have to tweak normals for every vertex by hand to avoid ugly shadowing around edges, which is such a tedious work, I don`t even...it`s no wonder BB was a TEAM effort. One guy or girl could hardly do it alone.

As for making new mods that aren`t backward compatible...well, that`s for the community to decide. This mod I`m making is already "stepping on toes" of many popular mods, primarily custom head packs. It works on the principle "THERE CAN ONLY BE ONE", and if it is to go live, it would have to be adopted by other modders as well. So, when you think about it, it is a gamble. Will it take on? Will people make the shift? We just don`t know...

Also - http://25.media.tumblr.com/bbcb217ee64986493e83efe632effaf2/tumblr_mm655iyPSw1rjx2rao1_1280.jpg Now to make a male morph.

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Emmie Cate
 
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Post » Sun May 05, 2013 1:44 pm

The more variety the better. There's a creeping tendency towards a homogenisation of the game as it is. Shaking things up a bit would be good.

Replacers can be mixed and matched with some time and effort so one pack doesn't necessarily rule out any others.

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Tyrone Haywood
 
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Post » Sun May 05, 2013 1:56 pm

Will there be an effort to make these look as close to vanilla meshes as possible? If it's a "there can only be one" kind of replacer (AKA a high res, modern update of the vanilla heads) then IMO it needs to look almost 1:1 (artistically/aesthetically speaking; not technically) to the vanilla heads - meaning no anime heads, or Morgan Freeman heads... or super model heads (though arguably some of the vanilla heads do look attractive in a super model kind of way... in which case, it's fine).

I am still not using Better Heads in 2013 because of the lack of vanilla similarities. I'd rather play with the old head meshes.

THAT all said... your work here is amazing. They do look good. The question above still remains though.

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Inol Wakhid
 
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Post » Sun May 05, 2013 4:22 pm

Not quite, I`m afraid. Here`s the thing -

These heads need a modified BB version with lowered neck. I plan on making them as default replacers, so that all vanilla NPCs get visually updated. Hairs should be modified as well, which means removing the ears from them.

So, if someone is playing with a character that is using a custom head (from one of head packs) and has the full version of this mod installed, their character will have an empty space between the head and neck (b/c they are using modified BB). Also, if their character is wearing one of default hair replacers I have to make, they will have no ears.

Another option is to only get my heads and put them in game, keeping old BB meshes and hairs. But, if they do so, characters using my heads (basically, NPCs) will have a floating neck and 2 pairs of ears (as my heads have ears modeled in).

I also had a run with robes and armors (I`m using BB replacers for them), and they too will need work (fixing the neck on the meshes). It`s not so bad, but still - it`s there. So, now we can only wait and see if people are willing to switch to this version and start updating/releasing new mods that fit.

This is not going to be easy. It could turn out to be very rewarding, but not easy at all.

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Jessica Lloyd
 
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Post » Sun May 05, 2013 4:25 pm

It's worth doing, there will be an audience for it and if it improves your own game then that's justification enough - so make what you feel will be best and don't worry too much about compatibility or vanilla likeness - this seems to be one of those cases of needing to break some eggs to make an omelette :) I know that I'd be curious to see if the eyes that are used in better eyes could be mashed with these new meshes and would be content to try that myself - not expecting it to be an included as a standard feature nice as though it would be.

Best of luck! :)

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benjamin corsini
 
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Post » Sun May 05, 2013 10:07 am

Well...yes and no.

Vanilla heads are at low resolution, both meshes and textures, so using them as reference is a bit hard. What I CAN tell you, right now, is that I don`t plan to make all characters look pretty and model-like. Not a chance. Some faces will look old and wrinkled, others will look a bit younger, but I am planning to keep it varied, following the look of original faces (I don`t want to have characters intended by the game to be old look like they`re 12). No anime faces, don`t worry. At least not as default replacers.

With that in mind, I do want to introduce some changes. For instance, giving Dunmer really grayish skin (unlike aquamarine they have now) with red eyes. They won`t have super long and sharp faces (well, not all of them) but will look a bit more ethnic (say, hooked noses, some will have thicker lips, pronounced cheek bones, big tilted eyes and decorative scarring). Same goes for Altmer (sans the scarring. Plus, their faces won`t be as sharp and angular. Specific, yes, but not overly so), and Bosmer will have black eyes and possibly slightly darker, tanned skin. Orsimer will loose their lima bean green skin and shift more towards greyish tones with pronounced nose wrinkles. All mer races will have brow ridges, like in Skyrim. I think it`s an interesting feature that should distinct them even more from human races.

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meghan lock
 
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Post » Sun May 05, 2013 12:18 pm

Alright... as long as you keep lore-friendlines in mind as well as keeping within the bounds of the vanilla aesthetics... sounds good to me. :) Consider your mod already endorsed by me. ;)

I hope you don't pull a Westley and disappear... XD

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Reven Lord
 
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Post » Sun May 05, 2013 11:51 am

I won`t cater to personal requests and desires, just so I make it clear right off the bat. But I will do my best. ;)

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Sarah Kim
 
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Post » Sun May 05, 2013 12:55 pm

That sounds great! I hope you'll standardize the shape of the skull; one of the biggest problems with current head meshes (both vanilla and custom meshes) is that the top of the head differs greatly from one mesh to the other. This means that it is next to impossible to create very short hair meshes, if you get it to fit one mesh it'll clip with most others. I don't think Oblivion modders have that problem, but for Morrowind it is a real nightmare.

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Angela Woods
 
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Post » Sun May 05, 2013 5:12 am

I hope you weren't serious there; that's hardly fair to Westly. He was just here three days ago, bearing gifts - preview screens of every Dunmer head. That's ten for the ladies and seventeen for the men, not including vampires. For shame! :nono:

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Darian Ennels
 
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Post » Sun May 05, 2013 2:04 pm

...which is exactly what I will do at some point, meaning you`ll have to choose his version or mine. This is what I was talking about, the unfortunate situation where "old" mods and "new" mods will clash. :/

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ashleigh bryden
 
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Post » Sun May 05, 2013 7:35 am

I don't think more variety is any sort of problem. I'm with Hicks on this: Morrowind modding (at least for characters) has become too homogenized. I'd love to see some alternatives. I've also shifted back to the vanilla heads (and bodies) simply because I'm tired of the celebrity faces, lack of head model variety, and bland characteristics of most options currently available.
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Timara White
 
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Post » Sun May 05, 2013 2:43 am

I'm with the bandwagon on this one, too, I'm afraid. More choices aren't an issue for any of us, in my opinion - and the more there are, the more there is to appreciate. It might be that modders have been diffident about the idea of overhauling certain things because they would no longer be able to support other options the community is used to using. That is the case, here especially, but to my mind a possibility for changing things up and a new asset for people to mod for can only be a good thing.

And besides, it's not like people won't be able to use both these types of heads and the old style - anyone can do both, just not at the same time. I'd be interested in using one for one play-through, another for a new character, and even going back and forth once in a while just for variety. There doesn't necessarily have to be a clash, or a this vs. that situation. So on with the show, I say! :happy:

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Everardo Montano
 
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Post » Sun May 05, 2013 6:15 am

Where did I go :D ? Nope, still here ;) ....

I think this is shaping up to be a fantastic mod and greatly anticipate all the new faces of Morrowind. Nothing but love for this on my end (as any new resource is great). I look forward to your progress, for sure :smile: .

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sam
 
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