Uuuh... I really don't know what you mean. What kind of influence does it have on your choice of factions who you happen to run away from a burning village with? I liked being involved in things right from the start - it made it easier to roleplay for me. The only way to actually explore your character's personality is bouncing it off on others - and those others usually need a reason to let you do so. Imagine moving to a new town shouting "Hi! I'm " ... Uh... I don't know about where you live, but the response to that would be "So what?" over here. People only give you any of their time, if they've got a reason to do so.

I ran away with the soldier dude, went to White River, went through the main quest (because it felt natural), and I still haven't joined either the Stormcloaks or the Imperials. The beauty of the main quest is that it works completely without the factions. Besides, what hinders your character to change their mind? You can still decide you like the Stormcloaks better, even if you run away with the soldier.

Is there a way to escape without choosing Hadvar or Ralof?

Just because I escape with Hadvar doesn't mean I have to join his faction. Same goes for Ralof. But I guess you missed that.

Yes, i agree, is not a problem really for me to escape with any of the two as it won't affect what you choose later. But the fact that you can only learn dragonborn words after you been to bleak falls barrow and killed the dragon at the watch tower is a bit wierd. If you unlocked the dragonborns secret after visiting High Rothgar i would understand it. But as it is, its not.

I mean, you learn the word from that dragonshrine but you have no knowledge of the dragonborn at the time, not until you killed the dragon, but if you choose any other shrine as your first shout you are unable to read them... thats just not logical. This could be a glitch that the developers are not aware of but i think the reason is that they want you do to MQ before anything else rather than learning it any other way.

"Forced" may not be the best choice of words.

I think what the OP is getting at is if you follow the logical progression of the story you're led right into the MQ.

Yes, it's suggested that you "split up" but (following the legion guy) if you don't you're "thanked" and start receiving advice. I think what the OP was getting at is that even if you follow one of the guys from Helgen and are sent to deliver the message to the Jarl that shouldn't initiate the MQ.

After delivering the message that's when you should've been left on your own to discover the MQ.

THIS!!!

I think what people are complaining about is the following scenario: You exit the tutorial dungeon. You walk down to Riverwood. Alvor begs you to go ask the Jarl of Whiterun for help. If you're playing a good character, you oblige. You kill dragon. You get summoned by Greybeards. Jarl tells you that "this is a great honor" that "you cannot refuse". So from an RP standpoint you have to go meet the Greybeards. After that, the MQ snowballs, because there are dragons out and about wanting to destroy the world: for most characters, it doesn't make much sense (from an RP standpoint) to dillydally about in dungeons, etc.

Basically the problem starts when you speak to Alvor: if you're RPing a good character, this will box you into the MQ. You can therefore avoid this whole mess by never speaking to him (e.g., don't go to Riverwood). But even if you do that, you still won't be able to speak with the Jarl of Whiterun (which makes progressing the Civil War questline impossible after a point) without engaging the MQ.

Anyway, I prefer the Daggerfall & Morrowind approach a lot more. I really don't like that dragons (and Alduin nonetheless!) are thrown in our faces during the first few minutes of the game. I would've much rather had a more relaxed approach, where the player could become curious about dragons and then engage the MQ at their own leisure.

I agree with you, even tho i don't think the dragons is much of a problem as they are leveled with you. But to discover the dragons after the tutorial would have been a better approach, indeed.

I think of the whole dragonborn thing as something inherent. It's been there all the character's life (but dormant), and it has two components - the aptitude to learn the words, so you can do that whenever you come close to a shrine, and the instinctive knowledge how to use them, which comes by absorbing the essence of dragons. The whole Shouting stuff only works if you've got both components together. So it does indeed make sense to me - your strange state of being lets you learn words, but you need a dragon to use them. And if you don't do the quest where you actually get close to a dying dragon, you just don't happen to meet one. Which is perfectly normal. Skyrim is pretty big, and those things can fly - why would they be wherever you happen to be?
Besides, it's never specified how long it takes the Big Bad to actually reactivate his buddies. Can be any time-frame.
So, if you think about it, these things are only strange if you're metagaming :spotted owl:

Well said.

Exactly, if i don't meet a dragon its okay, but i did a run on one of my characters that i never went to Riverwood, but i did a quest which led me to a dragonshrine but i was not able to use it. What makes me able to learn the one in bleak falls barrow? i mean what is the difference between that one and any other shrine?

Sure, the quest does snowball - and I finished it pretty quickly. I still don't see the problem - the rest of the world is still there later. I've got the main quest behind me, and now I'm happily running across Skyrim helping everybody and their dog with their problems. And I got to save the world at least one other time, so far. And as I mentioned above, all that without joining any of the political factions. It's a lot more fun now too, because the whole "deal with the dragons or else" pressure is off. The so called main quest seemed more like an extended tutorial to me - you get to run across Skyrim, get to know people, get to know the guilds, and get the stuff you need to effectively fight the dragons you meet while you're busy doing other things.
I basically do the same in Morrowind too - deal with Dagoth Ur, and then have some fun with the guilds and the houses. And the addons.

Maybe it's, like, the first word. The one that unlocks all the others. I'm sure it's got to do something with magic. Or Akatosh said so. :whistling:

Double Post. Sorry. Wonky connection on my end...

If you want to RP a character that isn't immediately a world-saving hero then "dealing with the dragons" from the get-go isn't a great option.

Some people, myself included, like to RP characters that start off rather humble. They join a guild, slowly explore the world, rise through the ranks, etc. Then after they develop some substantial "street cred" they might want to tackle the MQ. After all, they're now badasses - Arch-Mages, Harbingers, whatever - (or on their way to being ones) and saving the world is a perfect job for a badass.

The current setup can be at odds with this playstyle. In some sense you have to be aware of the MQ trigger points to avoid getting caught up in the snowball (either that or be lucky). I think people are complaining about two things: 1) the first "trigger" (i.e. speaking to Balgruf or Alvor, depending on what kind of character you're RPing) occurs too early, and 2) the MQ snowballs after this trigger.

It would've been cool if we had a "go, join a guild, build up your skills" moment like in Morrowind.

'forcing you to run with him'.

LMAO does he grab your arms or hold his loaded bow in your back?

I have 4 characters and this is how I started them all

1. Kaajiit assassin thief ran to Riverwood asked the question about rumours (the one about the boy doing the black ritual to summon the dark brotherhood)
and he started on his quest to become a member of the Dark Brotherhood immediately going to whatever Towns/quests are relevant. Next he will join the
Thieves.

2. Mage ---- did go to Riverwood but only to get all the free stuff from Hadvars uncle to sell at the traders to make a little coinage for early horse and cart rides.
Then I made my way to Mages College and started on that immediately having my orientation and starting on my first quest

3 Nord Conan type Warrior...he actually started out by joining the Legion first and starting on their quests.

4. Rebel female dual wield and bow (making her now so not sure what race) she will join The Companions, Stormcloaks or something else...

I will do the main quest chain on all of them at some point BUT right now Ilm LOVING having 3 different story progressions and a fourth soon.

Its like they all start off and go on their own tangent and diverge at the end to do the final chain.

Perhaps, but it wouldn't make sense story wise. In Morrowind part of your task was to find out what this strange place was all about - finding out about the culture and beliefs of the Dunmer, finding out about the Nerevarine, because your quest-giver is an imperial agent who is just as clueless as you are.

In Skyrim everybody knows the legends, and since you've got the voice you can prove that you are "The One". Dagoth Ur also has been sitting in his Red Mountain for centuries - this threat isn't as imminent as the dragons (he also isn't quite as mobile). He is also patiently waiting for you to show up, where the dragon wants to get his plan going as quickly as possible, and time is, indeed, of essence.

So, yes, being given the time to make your character a badass is quite nice, but the world just doesn't work that way. Like exams. They are there one day, and nobody cares if you're ready or not. I like that it's the same in Skyrim - makes it feel more real to me.

I think, in the end, it's not a different game, and it isn't about game-mechanics. It's about the story. Strange things, stories. If they're there, they kind of want to be followed.

I think the thing others are saying is that if you'r not the type of character to simply ignore the requests of the people that helped you the choices are limited.

If you're not the type of player to blindly run off into a foreign land, simply for the hell of it, the choices are limited.

If you're not the type to ignore your personal connection to a dragon the choices are limited.

I think for people who try to play in a more traditional role-play style the choices are limited. For someone who "role-play" only extends as far as what race they are the choices are not so limited.

So their choice of roleplay are limiting them. Go figure.

Judging by the description in the message of that last poster. They are making a choice to restrict their options and so perhaps the game isnt suitable for their style.

THIS IS how the game is...IF you cross off all the options THEN you get what you get *shrug*
I came into this willing to do anything...played for a day testing out toons and decided that 4 different story progressions was possible for me but then Im pretty flexible

In my current game I played about 30 hours before I ever talked to Jarl Balgruuf. I already had a home in solitude and quite a few maxed out skills.

Nothing about the game really compels you or forces you to go to the Jarl at all. IF you talk to the relatives of your escape ally in Riverwood and IF you decide to honor their request, then you'll go talk to the Jarl, but that's a pretty week compulsion, and otherwise no other cues really point you in that direction. If they didn't give you at least that much guidance, millions of players would quit early on because they had no idea what they're "Supposed to do."

No, I don't see it that way at all.

I see it as the game doesn't really support a RPG style of play.

The game seems more designed for the casual player who isn't concerned with logic or story. That's not really a problem unless you don't want to play like that.

It's supposed to be a RPG not a FPS or an Action-Adventure game.

You know whats interesting with the approach I have taken I could actually roleplay all four exactly the way that person wants. None of my characters are famous yet, all are doing the hard yards.

1. One is at mage school
2. One joined the army
3. One is stealing and killing lol
4 last one Im about to start now

No, it doesn't support your specific style of RP. I however (like dragonrider and wintermutes) have no problem RPing. I actually rather enjoy playing my Nord huntsman that lives of the land and only comes in to town to trade now and then. As I enjoy playing any of the other 4 char I have currently.

OK, fine.

So because other people want to RP differently than you is it inherrently wrong? You enjoy playing a PC that doesn't return kindness, cool. Some people don't want to play like that. That's all it is to it. Some people want to be able to return the favor to their benefactors without being snowballed into the MQ. Is that really a lot to ask for?

It wouldn't have taken much, one sentence of dialogue, to satisfy both views but Bethesda, since Oblivion, seems to have consciously chosen to no longer to do that.

That's what, IMO, I think is the crux of the conversation.

the game doesnt force u todo anything!