http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e45/Awexssawsomepicts1/Stop_liking_what_I_dont_like-n1315212424812-1.jpg
Edit: Also, explain 'gimmickie'. What the [censored] is the gimmick. It's an underground monster fighting ring, I don't really know what you expected.

To continue with the cupcake anology. Bethesda already had the recipe for Fallout but didn't follow it. Obsidian did however follow the Fallout recipe.

My point is Bethesda took Oblivion and used to to make Fallout 3. I am not saying Fallout 3 is "Oblivion with guns." I am saying that Bethesda already had the ground work for Fallout 3 thanks to Oblivion. Just like Fallout New Vegas had the ground work thanks to Fallout 3 and just like Fallout 4 will have the ground work thanks to Skyrim.

So I am saying that Obsidian had a very short window of time to make New Vegas from scratch and it was from scratch using the Fallout 3 engine and did an awesome job. Whereas Bethesda had three years to make Fallout 3 from scratch using Oblivion's engine. It's all the same engine. All games used the same basic ground work. All the games were built from that ground work from scratch. Obsidian just did a better job and with less time.

Well fallout 3 had an "updated " game engine so blah .
Yes bethesda had the original fallout recipe but they used there own recipe thats a different argument. (making your own recipe takes longer than follwing one).What i'm saying is obsidian benefited from have a recipe and rules to follow and it cut down time also a recipe obsidian had to follow unlike the beth comparison.

And i'm sure I seen in an e3 video saying bethesda helped obsidian with the game world but I have no proof so I won't use it in the debate.

What I am saying is both Fallout 3 by Bethesda and New Vegas by Obsidian were both made from stratch using the Oblivion engine or what ever it's called. New Vegas didn't benefit much from Fallout 3. Bethesda didn't help create or write or design anything in New Vegas.

Obsidian wasn't following any recipe by Bethesda. All the open world stuff you are talking about is simply because Fallout changed from isometric view to modern view. That's it. That isn't reason enough for Bethesda to only give Obsidian less then a year.

It wasn't like Bethesda gave Obsidian Fallout 3 and asked them to make a few changes. Obsidian was asked to produce a whole new game using Fallout 3's engine. The every same engine Oblivion used. So yeah this is where I am saying Fallout 3 is "Oblivion with Guns."

Bethesda didn't play a huge roll in creating New Vegas. They simply sat back and oversaw the work. New Vegas was created from stratch just like Fallout 3 was created from scratch. But New Vegas was done in far less time.

Three year for Fallout 3 and less then one year for New Vegas, and it wasn't because "most of the work for New Vegas was already done thanks to Fallout 3."

I agree obsidian were given little time but bethesda did give em a hand to an extent or why else would Jason bergman of bethesda have worked on it?
The whole thing about gamebyro is debateable fo3 from what I know had been updated by beth then threw into fonv.The gamebyro thing is debateable from what I know beth updated it for fo3 which obsidin used and done nothing/ little to it.
And a game engine art style and a key focus is a template , which beth had to work on all tese things ala more time consumed.

What i'm saying is that people make out obsidian was kicked out on the street and told to make a game .

Well I wasn't trying to give that impression. Yeah Bethesda had people working alongside Obsidian and Obsidian was handed a game engine and told to use it.

But I am saying is Bethesda was also handed a game engine (Gamebryo) and told to work with it for Fallout 3.

So I am saying both Obsidian and Bethesda had to do the same amount of work to create their games. Each had to take what was given to them (Gamebryo) and create their game in the time given.

I am getting the impression that people think Bethesda made most of New Vegas and handed it off to Obsidian. Bethesda's main job was to oversee the work, do the QA and publish it. Obsidian did everything else which was develope and produce the game.

Edit: We both agree that Obsidian was given very little time to make New Vegas. If Obsidian was given another six months to make New Vegas it would have turned out even better. Still I am happy with what we got with New Vegas. Still adding six more months would have worked out to about half the amount of time Bethesda had for Fallout 3.

Actually, at the start of the game, Vegas is only receiving 5% of Hoover Dam's output, which, according to Mr.House, is 'more than enough'.

I think the overall game world is quite large, but The Strip itself is pretty small. Only three functioning casinos and only five other buildings (Lucky 38, monorail station, NCR embassy, sign factory, Vault 21) in total. I don't understand why Vault 21 isn't a full fledged casino either (considering their history it would be perfect).

comparing new vegas' strip to new reno's strip (FO2), vegas is a little anemic. i quite like the quests and scenery of vegas, but i would have liked more. my biggest criticism is the one quest per casino (barring house). i expected something more along FO2. criticisms aside, i think the strip in new vegas accurately represented the strip of the real vegas in the 50's. someone posted a thread and a link to some 50's strip photos, and i'm not sure you could even call it a strip; very small.

but i have to say the tech constraint on consoles is enormous and it gets my vote to why the mojave is so empty. i recently upgraded my video card and now have a competent, decidely budget build, pc. and it still blows the doors off of my ps3. better graphics, better stability, better performance and this includes multiple mods and mods that increase npc count (i was able to do all freeside quests in one sitting, with no crashes or fps crashes or problems of any kind...simply not possible on ps3...).

there was a patch released where obsidian had to cut more people and items from the game world for better stability. and gamebryo does not like ps3. neither does it's modified and cleverly name changed skyrim cousin. and i guess MS and sony would freak if their platforms didn't have the exact same game as pc or a competitor.

enough of that ramble, vegas could've used more meat, but i think it's because of console limitations. i also understand that freeside, westside, et al., are technically included in the strip, but i think what most wanted was that 'vegas' feel and more of a 'vegas' questline in addition to everything else, because what is in the game is great.

There were more like two quests per casino. Gomorah had the one with the prosttutes escaping and the one where you kill the leaders and set fire to the weapons. Ultra Lux had the one with the cattle guys outside which tied into the one about canibalism (these are less seperate than the others). The Tops had the one where you hire entertainers for the theater and the main quest with Benny (plus the main quest choice with Yes Man). Plus, there was gambling at each-making a lot of money gambling and getting banned everywhere could be considered a "quest" if you stretch things.

It would be nice if there was one more quest per casino, but what I would have really liked would be simply having more casinos.

I agree.

Yes from watching gameplay prior to release I had high hopes for The Strip and I was a little disappointed but I definitely believe that if they were given more time it would've been amazing. Also, the engine that they were given limited the number of NPCs they could have in each area hence the walls seperating parts of The Strip... Oh, and as far as quests go I think there is like 2x the amount that were in FO3.

I can definitely agree with that. Though, what was there satisfied me enough I suppose. To be quite honest however, I got much more out of Freeside in terms of enjoyment/experience than the strip.