:slap:

lol

Sure, a team of about 300 people can make a great-looking PC-only linear RPG for high-end PCs using lots of middleware (PathEngine, fmod, Scaleform, Havok, speedTree, etc).

Honestly, the "photorealism" is hindered by its artstyle (which automatically lets you know that it is NOT real). I can't even run this motherf***ing game smoothy on the lowest settings (and I'm a PC gamer), yet I can run Crysis and BFBC2. WTF! Anyway...

Skyrim, however, is a multi-platform open-world RPG made by a team of about 100 people using their own in-house tech (except for Havok Behavior, which is necessary) that also looks great and http://images.uesp.net/7/72/SR-prerelease-2011-04-01-2.jpg.

So yeah...

You lost me here friend, the story in Morrowind is the greatest story I've played :wave:

It's not really an RPG in my books if you can only be one guy on a linear path. TW2 looks great and i will pick it up but i think your missing the point. You don't have to fight the dragons. You don't have to collect the shouts. You don't even have to play the MQ and be the Dragonborn. My bet is that Esbern will say "you are the DragonBorn" and at that point you can run off into the woods and ignore him completely and enjoy the fantastic hand-crafted open world. Can you do that in TW2?

Most of this is pure speculation but so is this thread. I'm glad your enjoying TW2 but i'm sure the gloss will have worn off by the time Skyrim comes around.

I like it too, but its funny how many of my 'pros' are your 'cons', and vice versa.

Also... It would appear that they have actually simplified (in a bad way) the alchemy system, and IMO also potion use.

Okay, I'm sick of threads like these or even threads that mention TW2. It's a good game. It's also completely different from TES. Yes, they're both RPGs, but bear in mind that "RPG" is a term that's essentially meaningless in today's video game market. The most agreed-upon definition is that it has numbers that go up. Thus we can mention Planescape: Torment in the same breath as both Borderlands and Knights of the Chalice when discussing the genre, pretty much uncontested.

There's no TW2 vs. Skyrim in much the same way that there's no Devil May Cry vs. Halo. They're different kinds of games, damn it. TW2 is amazing in its own right, with beautiful graphics, amazing writing, and compelling characters. Skyrim will have a completely different focus, seeing as TES has always been about an open world where you do whatever you damn well please, with a heavy focus on action and much less emphasis on plot. TW2 by contrast really has no exploration element at all. It's about making choices and seeing how they play out. There were almost no choices in Oblivion (choosing to ignore content doesn't really count, I say) but it's still regarded as a good game by many and as an RPG as well.

I'm rambling a bit here. Brandy does that to a man. Point being: they're different games. Wildly different. The focus of each is in a completely different direction and they're designed to appeal to different audiences with different preferences. There's some overlap between these audiences but based on all the [this insult has been censored by order of the Tribunal Temple] saying that The Witcher 2 svcks based on such asinine justifications as a pre-defined character, un-actiony combat, and a world that's not completely wide open, I'd say it's really not that big.

So enough already.

EDIT:

By the way, it's freaking hilarious to hear people cite "linear story" as a con of TW2 in comparison to the TES series, since outside of the so-called "back path" in Morrowind your character wasn't able to have the slightest effect on how the plot played out in either Morrowind or Oblivion. I doubt Skyrim will be any different, but that's no problem, as a branching story has never been the focus of TES.

Skyrim v The Witcher 2? heh.

Okay, I bought The Witcher 2 on release date from GOG . I`m a reasonable way into Act 2 and already losing enthusiasm in playing the game further.
I really enjoyed the prologue and Act 1 but now the terrible optimisation, input lag and the "strike, roll, use Quen" type of combat is becoming tedious to be honest.
Yes the Story is very good and well crafted, adding immersion. The story taking twists via your decisions is very well done.

But..

Here is why Skyrim, in my opinion, will massacre The Witcher 2..

Character Customisation - The freedom to be who you want to be..looks, race and class wise. None of this you are such and such a person and this is how you look all the time..meh.

TRUE Free Roaming Open World...The Witcher 2 lets your roam around a good sized area in each Chapter, yes, but Skyrim will have a HUGE Open World compared to TW2. See those mountains miles in the distance? lets walk there..
We can visit lots of cities, towns, dungeons etc without having to wait for the story to load in another act ala TW2..

Real Magic with lovely effects, able to be customised..mixing spells for different effects...none of this limited Sign magic stuff.

Graphics...TW2 looks pretty nice but runs like a demented hog on a lot of PC`s. Skyrim looks amazing in both 1st and 3rd person...and those finishing moves...eat your heart out Geralt..
Skyrim, well it`s not been released yet, so we don`t know exactly how smooth it will run for sure, but the Xbox 360 footage shown, looks pretty damn nice and very smooth looking so far.

Skyrim, like previous TES games, cannot be beaten for sheer scope, size and freedom to be what ever you want to be...I want to be a throat slitting Assassin..Skyrim has animations for that..great..no such thing in TW2..

We also have all the varied armors, weapon types..dragon shouts...huge Dragons to fight..houses to own...jobs we can do....variety? it can`t be beaten.

The Witcher 2 has a great storyline but is still very limited in freedom... You are Geralt - with limited options and thats it.

Sorry but no contest (in my opinion)

They are different games but i think that CDPR is far beyond Beth's reach .
Of course TW2 is not perfect but it beats all the TES games in everything from immersion to lore to story, to combat mechanics to skill tree to how mature if feels.
SK vs TW2 will be like boys vs men .

Versus threads aren't allowed OP.

There, that's better.

Seriously, like I said, half of those things you listed are not really relevant. You might as well say that Left 4 Dead is better than TW2 because Geralt doesn't get a machine gun or PEEELZ to grab when he fights necrophages. I could take Oblivion to task for its lack of urban development simulation, you know. It will never approach Sim City 3000 in quality, I say. Know why Geralt can't buy a house? It would be a pointless feature, especially considering that Witchers are supposed to be nomads by definition. And for the record, The Witcher 2 does have finisher animations. If you go the Swordsmanship character path then you can get a chance of instant kill moves, or just perform them on stunned enemies, complete with neat integration of Signs that look all cool and Witchery. Also: Graphics-wise, CD Projekt wipes the [censored] floor with Bethesda. On a hypothetical quantum supercomputer powered by the blood of orphans, I can guarantee you that TW2 will look miles better than Skyrim under the best of circumstances. It's one of the best-looking PC games released in years.

The main reason it is generally hard for BGS to make a truly engaging and immersive story is because the main character has no voice. Part of the reason why games like Mass Effect and The Witcher are great is because they have great, already-established protagonist. With Mass Effect, you have the daring and risk-taking Commander Shepard, who would do anything for his crew and will save the galaxy at all cost. With The Witcher, you have Geralt of Rivia, the legendary White Wolf, who really cares nothing for politics and the northern kingdoms, but always seems to get caught in the middle of the worst conflicts. These two characters have a voice and personality that allow them to come to life, and as a result make the story better.

TES games have never had this, so it's always more difficult to make the player more engaged. Since BGS games are solely about "you" being in this fantasy world, they have to figure out a more clever way of making the game cater and fit to the player's experience. To be honest though, I think Skyrim will have the best and strongest story for a BGS game yet. I thought Morrowind had a great MQ and Oblivion's was a little too focused on Martin, but Skyrim will likely take the cake easily. Story can be made and interpreted in a variety of ways. While BioWare and CD Projekt Red clearly show how a pre-determined protagonist is great, I think BGS can make just as much of a compelling game with a silent protagonist.

oh dude don't waste a drunkpost here. it's not worth it, even if everything you're saying is 100% correct.

the only modern games that come close to filling the niche Bethesda games have created - that of immersive, open-world sandbox exploration with heavy focus on emergent gameplay and more content than most gamers are aware even exists - are Rockstar's games, the STALKER series, and the upcoming Deus Ex.

all of these games fall into the "immersive sim" category, which started back with Ultima Underworld and encompasses games like Thief, System Shock and Deus Ex - games where, while your choices might not have a major impact on the story, they have a major impact on the kind of game you're playing and the kind of experience you have playing that game.

in Skyrim, like in every Elder Scrolls game prior, you'll be able to approach the game as a hands-on melee guy, a ranged archer guy, or a fireball-throwing mage guy, or any possible combination of the three. you'll be able to go off the beaten path and explore a dungeon deep in the woods and completely ignore the main quest and remain unhindered in your adventuring.

in The Witcher, the only viable gameplay style is to cut things while rolling around, setting traps and throwing spells occasionally. you can go off the beaten path a bit, though you are still heavily restricted by corridors and waist-high walls, and while you can explore a dungeon deep in the woods in that chapter, you can't actually go anywhere else besides the areas detailed in that chapter.

The Witcher 2 is a fun, good-looking, well-written game, but it is in no way a Skyrim killer. if anything, all it's done is damned the Dragon Age franchise to eventually wither and die, because that's the closest thing to it and it [censored] ALL OVER it.

Yeah, I have seen some gameplay, and what is with the insane constant rolling?

because at some point in development CDP played the [censored] out of Monster Hunter and Demon's Souls and went "oh damn we need this". also because it's much faster and more useful than parrying before you've leveled parrying.

i like the mechanic a lot apart from the fact that the camera almost never reacts well to it.

Shouldn't needless rolling tire your character out pretty fast? I mean in the real world, you can't win every battle by dodgerolling every 2 seconds.

You make many good points but I'll be damned if I let you take away my right to argue with dare I say remarkable coherence about inconsequential [censored] with a community that is largely... er, intellectually non-focused while I am heavily under the influence of various mind-altering substances. And again, it really can't be a "Skyrim killer" because they're not in the same category of games, as you so astutely pointed out.



People on other (PC gaming-centric) websites disagree with me when I say that the combat in TW2 is pretty crappy, but in large part it is. The swordsmanship is too slow-paced and wonky to stand up to proper action games, the alchemy is too limited to build your entire character around, and the magic is just too damn overpowered to be challenging. Seriously, when you fully upgrade Quen you can combine it with the almighty spacebar to become an untouchable god of attack spamming. If the individual combat moves flowed together better than perhaps it would be more fun, but as it is you literally cannot cast a Sign until your current animation has completely finished, be it an attack, movement, or one of the 23 million dodge rolls you will make while playing the game.

Don't let that put you off from playing it, though. It's absolutely fantastic in its own right, and once you get the hang of combat it can be challenging in its own way.

but Geralt is a badass mutant rockstar! also there's no stamina bar.

it's very much an example of those newfangled post-RPGs (:3) that deemphasize numbers and stats in favor of allowing the choices you make through dialogue and quest resolution resonate with the future of the world. the latest STALKER is a good example of that, where the combat is very much a first-person shooter but the actual game content has more to do with playing a role and making decisions than really any other.



i liked the combat! i mean all your arguments are sound and i agree with them but i still thought it felt really rewarding to actually take out a horde of dudes on your own. also, taking down the endrega queens was golden.

The Witcher 2 and Skyrim are two totally different games, so it's hard to compare them. The Witcher 2 is more story driven and linear, where Skyrim is more about open worlds and sandboxing. Graphics wise, the Witcher 2 is the clear winner. Story wise, I doubt Bethesda is going to come up with anything that's near as good. But in regards to gameplay and presentation, I have pretty high hopes for Bethesda, but Skyrim is really gonna have to fight for it if it wants to take my number 1 spot for best rpg 2011.

A very good point, i've never played an elder scrolls game for the story, i've consistently avoided and ignored the main story as i want to roam, explore and watch a story emerge from my actions ingame, it's why elder scrolls is the only RPG series that i play, if i wanted a good story with a fixed beginning and end i can and often do read books, the elder scrolls is fantastic precisely because it doesn't shoe-horn the player into a pre-set, linear story that is so prevalent with other RPG's.

I've just finished playing New vegas, great game but absolutely ruined (for me) by a permanent ending that has stopped me from roaming the world any further, this is of course just a personal opinion but any game that tells me what to do, where to go, who to be and when i stop playing holds very little interest for me.



Yep i agree, i'm not too chuffed about how prominent the whole "dragonborn" thing is either, it does take away from the vagueness of making a new character from scratch as whether you be a Bosmer assassin or Orc warrior, you're still going to have the whole "dragonborn" and "dragon shouts" aspect to whatever character you make, it's a little more restrictive than before, not my particular cup of tea but i guess thats the way they felt the series should go.

Enemy behavior seems to vary inexplicably between gamers, but I found the Endrega Queens incredibly boring since I just cast Yrden on the ground before they charged me and sauntered casually behind them to spam M2 while they sat there doing nothing. Likewise with Letho at the end of chapter 1. Later on it's enjoyable in its own way, but I still think it was monumentally stupid of them to lock you out of all the interesting character development paths for your first seven levels. That's damn late when you bear in mind that there's a freaking achievement for reaching level 35.

It depends on what each individual RPGer looks for in their game.
Well as I am posting from my own opinion, I find them relevant in my idea of what makes a great RPG for me. I love the freedom to customise my character, freedom to choose what he will do with his fate. Thats something that TES has always been unbeaten in.
Obviously in The Witcher 2 you are going to be limited with your character since it`s all based around Geralt, Triss etc. Thats fine if your really dig Geralt as your character and like using the signs etc. I`m not that bothered about The Witcher novels or storyline really.
Sure there is some finishing moves in TW2 but not a visceral-plunge-your-sword-into-someones-stomach in first person. Skyrim combat looks much more lifelike and grimmer

I would say that CDPR beats Beth in storyline content and interaction, the characters you meet are also interesting and have nice depth and background to them, so as far as these points go...yes, CDPR is superior in this.

However, there are other factors that i also rate highly in an RPG...

Longevity.. no contest. I will still be playing Skyrim months, years after it`s release - like Daggerfall, Morrowind and Oblivion. The Witcher 2? Once i finish it soon, I may play through again to see a different story outcome, but I doubt it will be played again after that.

Combat....I don`t find the combat in TW2 particularly great however or immersive. rolling around, hitting the button repeatedly for Quen (thanks to input lag) and skewering the mobs. I`m much more looking forward to first person, bash your face in with my shield and cleave your skull in style of Skyrim combat. I find first person much more immersive to be honest.
If I had a super quantum PC i`m sure it looks beautiful. I only have a mid-level PC and it`s struggling now in a lot of places in Act 2. It looks nice on my PC but not gobsmacking.

The Witcher 2 is an excellent RPG in it`s own right, but it has not sated the craving I have for the next TES epic.

Witcher 2 is a hardcoe story-driven RPG for mature PC audience. Skyrim is an open-world action RPG for mass market.
Skyrim and Witcher 2 are biggest contenders for RPG of the year, but they are very different games.

I definitely agree, the WT2 has raised the bar far way up and I don't see skyrim has a chance, with all we've hear for it till now. Maybe it's better for bethesda to delay the game for 2012 because the title for the best rpg of 2011 is owned.
Anyway those 2 series are my favorites and I'm buying them and playing them both. But I definitely don't see skyrim can catch the overal role playing experience TW2 delivers so brutally with the best dark fantasy world ever created in a game.

Lol I don't see that happening, Bethesda is a big player, much bigger than Witcher's, and Tes is a huge and well established franchise, the Witcher is just a newborn, a successful one for the PC market nonetheless, but Skyrim is going to be RPG of the year for the most important gaming communities and there is no surprise and no delaying needed here, trust me :tops: