I was just wondering about witches covens. Traditionally I think they just reside in the wilderness although some can be found in cities and can summon the Deadra Lords for you. Do they have some other function, ? Going up north into Skyrim we are probably more likely to see them like in Daggerfall I assume. Perhaps there are no old Deadra shrines but the Lords can be reached through the covens. Or perhaps a mixture witches (wo)manning the shrines.

Are there any texts about them? Or perhaps represent something else? Everything seems to be a metaphor for something else if you dig at it long enough.

While we are on this subject I might as well mention the Giants. Now there was an ice giant in Soltsheim (Kaarstag); is he related to the Giants in Skyrim (they look quite different)? Somebody mentioned Giants were associated with Dragons and so forth.

Lets see, for starters, Witch then to be one of the few mortals that have some knowledge for a cure for Lycanthropy and Vampirism, and this goes back all the way to Daggerfall in a http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Daggerfall:A_Special_Mixture, which lead to their involvment of the said cure in Morrowind and Oblivion.

One of the main reason as to why the Witches resided in the wilderness is that they are "hated" base on their life style (nearly an all female nvde fest and demonic worship to an outside observer). The fact that they worship the Daedric Princes rather than the Divines usually put them under on the darker view on the Witch to a point where people would go as far and discredit them as evil (http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Daggerfall:Public_Relation http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Daggerfall:The_Libel).

Thanks, I think they could be fleshed out a bit more, integrate them a bit better. You could play a lot of nice little games with the numbers of the covens and who they are affiliated with etc.

Im gunna become a hedge wizard now.

I've always considered Kaarstag to be related to trolls, as he shares a lot of features with them. Long forearms, large claws, covered in fur, multiple eyes..

The only giant depicted in Skyrim (there may be multiple types) seems to be similar to a human, though. Not sure how they fit into Tamriel's ecology.

Kaarstag is a Kaarstag. Some demon Vivec forgot he birthed, or a spirit of the Old Mary, perhaps a beast of the Hunt. Definitely the last of his kind.

Human, but, more precisely, the Giant resembles an elf.

Or maybe the only of his kind.

There'll be Daedric shrines in Skyrim. The video with Todd Howard giving a tour of Bethesda, shows an utterly gorgeous piece of concept art, of Azura's shrine.

Still, they could always double as witch covens.

We know nothing of witches, but true giants we know are not like Karstaag. The higher beings of Atmora were giants, and they remain there, but those who formed the bulk of the fleet of Ysgramor have since grown shorter and more manlike, so that now you may know them by their more common name, "Nord."

Good point. What happened to the giants that called the Dwemer short? Were they some other kind of giant of kinda similar to these ones?




yes saw that and it does look quite nice. It most likely is a shrine but we can't be 100% sure yet.




So there are multiple forms of giants? The ones in Atmora, the ones in Skyrim, the ones that used to be in Morrowind? I haven't read anything that points to Nords being descented from giant like creatures, can you point me to some texts?. What I have read is that most likely some kind of proto-nede people went to Atmora for some hundreds of years and eventually returned as Nords.

http://www.imperial-library.info/content/fight-six-911th-cow contains that fact.

/\

psssst...

rumor has it that we might be digging up another one of those stories before too long.

I really need to make some time to read those soon.

There were giants in Daggerfall.

And the giant in the GI article resembles http://images.uesp.net//f/ff/DaggerfallGiant.gif more than man or mer.

Interesting how the skin tone of that giant closely resembles that of the Altmer.

I kind of hope that Giants will be fairly intelligent. Wouldn't it be great to hike up to the mountains, offer a Giant a gift to display your good will, and then (as he sits back upon a mountain to enjoy his giant sweetroll) you both discuss the weather and whether or not there have been any dragons sighted around these parts.

"ERRGMMM"

"Enjoying your sweetroll?"

"Yez."

"Good. So..I was wondering...seen any dragons around these parts?

"Mmmhmm."

"Where at?"

"You more sweetroll, please?"

"Err..."

*ruffles through bag*

"No, but what about..."

"DO NOT WANT!"

"eek"

On the subject of Kaarstag...
I just ran across this mention of an extinct race in the Pocket Guide, Third Edition's section on Summerset:


Probably not related, but interesting none the less.

Indeed. Weren't the Ehlnofey much bigger than the current races? Resemblance to the elves esp the altmer could be because of their descent from Ehlnofey and the giants just didn't lose their size. Similar with the Morrowind "giants".
Also didn't somebody say that giants and dragons are sort of similar?

You know, the Dwemer built giants. Lots of giants.

One in particular comes to mind. But what other giants did they build? I am assuming things such as steam centurions are not particularly gigantic . Perhaps twice their size and were just untalking machines. Or am I wrong again?

The ancestors of the Nords were the giants who named them Dwarves. They also taught them to wear beards. This is why it shouldn't be surprising that their ruins are also in Skyrim.

I'm not sure this appears anywhere, but I know it comes down from him.

I recall hearing something similar. I had the impression that it was the Ehlnofey that were the giants in question...

By the way, the elven commentator of the PG1E points out that "dwarf" and "giant" don't necessarily refer to physical stature.

Ok so finally read The Seven Fights of The Aldudagga (all were quite lovely esp the Snow Whale and Aless's story ) and indeed it contains this little precious gem:



Great Calamity? the time when all the men split and became different races?


Also: Giants can use Thu'um?



Is it a connection to something else or ..

It certainly sounds like Thu'um. And considering their connection with the Nords, it's not implausible.

So based in the new information from skyrim, giants can speak the dragon language? Whether this is because they are related to the dragons is still a question