With fallout new vegas on the horizon.... : Fallout 3

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 2:13 am

@CevSteel
I know. No need to explain. It was meant as a little joke because FNNCQ is a slavery overhaul. Maybe I should have used a smiley.

all good, I'm a moron! I use your mod but, didn't get your joke! I'm still feeling like the FNG! ("F***ing new guy!) when it comes to modding! :facepalm: I know I still have a lot to learn and, DCInt was my first mod ever! :banghead: I'm doing my best to put out a quality product. :celebration:

» Fri Feb 18, 2011 6:57 pm

Hotkeys are what they are - - as a modder you don't get to use those without FOSE and, if you are not using FOSE, you have to design around not expecting to have them. I've made a couple of functions which in a FOSE setting would have been done using a hotkey. For my functions, I required the player to equip a certain weapon to signal my system to do stuff (pip boy as a remote communication device), and, I've hijacked the ONDROP block of a miscellaneous item as well to do stuff (readable books which use showtutorialmenu to display text).

If i remember right I think ianpatt had said he would make time to port fose to FONV when it comes out, but i am not sure how long that may take.

» Fri Feb 18, 2011 10:59 pm

all good, I'm a moron! I use your mod but, didn't get your joke! I'm still feeling like the FNG! ("F***ing new guy!) when it comes to modding! :facepalm: I know I still have a lot to learn and, DCInt was my first mod ever! :banghead: I'm doing my best to put out a quality product. :celebration:

You are way too hard no yourself.

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 3:22 am

I've kind of wondered if the FOSE team will want to bother having to re-start from scratch (sort of) for FONV, without that, the mods would be really limited. But I do see a pretty vast migration taking place.

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 5:30 am

I call shenanigans on the guy who said he played it at beths HQ! wouldn't that info be covered by a NDA?

» Fri Feb 18, 2011 6:27 pm

I doubt I am going into NV modding. F3 modding will probably continue for another 5-6 months for me, then I'm done.

anyway, I'm currently working on other engines entirely...

I'll be back for an epic TES5 modding session.

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 12:57 am

I call shenanigans on the guy who said he played it at beths HQ! wouldn't that info be covered by a NDA?

A. You don't call shenanigans on DarkOne. He owns the Nexus sites and isn't given to lying.
B. Owning the Nexus sites makes him a "bigwig" in the community and a good source of advertising for gamesas....hence the early playtest.
C. NDAs rarely ever prevent anyone from saying something as general as "I had the opportunity to play with the game at Bethesda". Having the person say that is good buzz. It's the specifics of the test that are usually controlled.
D. NDAs usually expire shortly before the game is released. Often, the only purpose of the NDA is to make sure that all media outlets get the chance to report their experience at the same time. It's partly to be fair to them, but mostly in order to create an explosion of good reviews of the game rather than a slow trickle.

» Fri Feb 18, 2011 9:24 pm

A. You don't call shenanigans on DarkOne. He owns the Nexus sites and isn't given to lying.

Really. You're very new to the community if you don't know who DarkOne is. I'm not surprised at all that Bethesda would have given him a sneak preview, it would be good business for them.

» Fri Feb 18, 2011 9:51 pm

@Adrolak
Think of it as calling shenanigans on Gstaff, or Rohugh..
sokay, faux pas, been there, stepped in it, and yes, you get laughed at for a while. Until the next goof happens(*) and it all forgotten about

Stand close to me and you're bound to see a few goofs a day

...here's hoping they add the bulk of the Fo3 model asset database!

Amen brother. This should be ordained by Cipscis, blessed by Nib, and sanctioned by the mayhem mob (you know who you are..)

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 8:01 am

There is a key difference between Morrowind > Oblivion and Oblivion > Fallout 3 in comparison with Fallout 3 > Fallout New Vegas: FO3 and FONV are far more similar in engine structure than either of the two previous examples. The world content is definitely different, so that may help preserve the FO3 scene, but FONV just simply has more options. We already know of a built-in weapon mod system (although we haven't seen if that's inherent to weapon forms or if it's script-based a la WMK), and we also have alt ammo types. We also get a more intuitive convo creation app that's bolt-on.

I think FOSE will definitely be doable with FONV. Recall that the Steam developers helped the FOSE team adapt the loader to work with Steam versions of gamesas games.

I sure hope you're right. But previously Steam had to work with FOSE otherwise it would be lost sales for any informed mod user. Now that it's a Steam exclusive, there is less competition with the DVD market.

But then again, maybe Steam would lose reputation if they excluded FOSE. There would definitely be more complaints against Steam exclusives next Bethseda title.

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 8:40 am

Now that it's a Steam exclusive, there is less competition with the DVD market.

hmm huh

I did not know what this "steam" thing was. So I googled it and found a Wikipedia article. It said this in it:

Once patches for a user's installed software have been uploaded to Steam, they are applied the next time the user logs in or launches a game. Once a patch has been applied, it cannot be removed unless a patch is released which reverses the previous one. Individual games can be set to only update when requested by the user. Steam requires that games be fully patched before they can be played, however

... I sure don't want this degree of interference regarding any single player game I buy. MMO: sure. Otherwise no.

Is Fallout NV going to force me to install some steam client and use that site for patching the game? anyone know what's really up with this?

Edit:

Users who buy selected boxed games sold at retail stores are required to register the game on Steam with the included CD key, which will then be attached to the user's Steam account in the same way as a digital purchase. The game will then act in every way like a digital copy. Most of Valve's current games are sold in this fashion, as are Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2 , Supreme Commander 2 and Metro 2033.

creepy. Don't like that a bit.

Edit #2:

Steam collects and reports anonymous metrics of its usage, stability, and performance.[23] With the exception of Valve's hardware survey,[24] most collection occurs without notifying the user or offering an opt-out. Some of these metrics are available publicly, such as what games are being played or statistics on player progress in certain games.[25] Valve has also used information from these statistics to justify implementing new features in Steam, such as the addition of a defragmentation option for game caches.[26] Announced on the 15th July, Steam will soon start offering users to allow Steam to collect the details of what programs are installed on their system which are listed within the Windows' Programs and Features control panel.[27]

Now I'm pissed. I'll step out of this thread I think ...

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 5:30 am

Now that it's a Steam exclusive, there is less competition with the DVD market.

It's not a Steam exclusive at all, that would mean that the only way you could buy it is through them. But it will be available through the regular retail outlets just like any other title. I'm not sure about the other online distributors like Direct2Drive, but Wal-Mart will no doubt be selling it. It would be economic suicide for companies like Bethesda/Obsidian to restrict their sales to a single online distributor. They need to be able to get their products to as many people as they possibly can, and Steam simply doesn't have that kind of market share.

» Fri Feb 18, 2011 7:55 pm

I guess you will know for sure if, when you get the game home, it tries to force you to make a steam account and demands you play in an "offline" mode if you won't.

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 2:19 am

It is using Steamworks for DRM. And it will likely use Steam for patches as well.

So yes, you'll need to have Steam installed and you will need to use it to activate the game. After that I'm not sure if Steam will be required to be active to play at any time. I suspect it won't.

If you absolutely refuse to install Steam then you won't be able to play the game on the PC.

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 5:26 am

I apologize DarkOne, I didn't know you owned the nexus sites, haha love em by that way... um.. yeah.. >.> anyway im not new, i've been here since november 08. but steam isn't all that bad really. why won't people just try it, buy audio surf or some other low price game, and see how it works, if you don't like it, then you can uninstall it and thats the end of that. you know before NV even hits and everything works out great, you know if you want to buy it or not, and just how O.K steam really is.

» Fri Feb 18, 2011 6:19 pm

It is using Steamworks for DRM. And it will likely use Steam for patches as well.

So yes, you'll need to have Steam installed and you will need to use it to activate the game. After that I'm not sure if Steam will be required to be active to play at any time. I suspect it won't.

If you absolutely refuse to install Steam then you won't be able to play the game on the PC.

This is correct, and you won't need to use Steam once you have activated the game - so it's a one-time connection/activation and then again when you get the DLCs.

It's unavoidable, lets just hope the experience is 1000% better than it was with GFWL. I've never used Steam so this will be my first experience. I'm comfortable that it's a one-time activation only, I don't think I could deal with a game that required me to connect every time I played.

» Fri Feb 18, 2011 11:43 pm

When I originally bought Fallout 3 it was through Steam. I never had to log in to run the game. I was just launching it from FOMM, then later the fose_loader.

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 10:41 am

This is correct, and you won't need to use Steam once you have activated the game - so it's a one-time connection/activation and then again when you get the DLCs.

It's unavoidable, lets just hope the experience is 1000% better than it was with GFWL. I've never used Steam so this will be my first experience. I'm comfortable that it's a one-time activation only, I don't think I could deal with a game that required me to connect every time I played.

I just asked and got the same answer on the new vegas forums. They linked something written by one of the official people as of this past June. I wish I had known about this earlier but then again, I don't know what that would have helped.

I am *so* disappointed right now. Oh man. So.

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 7:56 am

Games need DRM. Steam is pretty near the best of what's available. Way better than an "always on" server authentication, or a Root Kit.

At least with Steam you have pretty near full control over when it's on and when it's off. And some control over what it updates and what it doesn't.

Plus the patches are tested double before being released and Steam is pretty good about fixing problems quickly.

» Fri Feb 18, 2011 9:13 pm

I think the least "invasive" solution for those of us who don't want _anything_ running on our computers but the programs we need, is to un-install steam after the game has been activated (assuming I can still play it if I un-install Steam? I damn hope so!).

When I need to get DLC's, I'll install Steam, get them, and un-install steam. As long as that holds true I'll be happy.

I agree with the companies desire to protect the product and minimize theft, but I draw the line when App X requires me to run the equivalent of a licensing server on my computer to validate that I am legit 24/7 - then I skip that App and move on to others more progressive in their thinking. I can't say Steam is bad yet, I just havn't tried it so I don't know.

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 9:15 am

When Steam in inactive, nothing from Steam is running on your computer. Period.

Uninstalling will only save you hard drive space.

Also, if you want your computer running at peak for gaming, I'd recommend GZero's Gboost program.

» Fri Feb 18, 2011 11:46 pm

Games need DRM. Steam is pretty near the best of what's available. Way better than an "always on" server authentication, or a Root Kit.

At least with Steam you have pretty near full control over when it's on and when it's off. And some control over what it updates and what it doesn't.

Plus the patches are tested double before being released and Steam is pretty good about fixing problems quickly.

I don't know if anyone will understand

Someone else's sense of what constitutes drm is not my problem. What is my problem, is, when someone retains identifying information about me when it is uncalled for.

I go to store .. I buy game .. I can has game? i can play game? no?

Collects stats too?

Writing here in this forum won't change anything, it seems way too late for anyone to fix. I am just so disappointed. I guess I can quit saying that since I already said it.

» Fri Feb 18, 2011 11:30 pm

Well I still am making my massive Fo3 mod. So I will spend a few months finishing that, and getting used to FNV, as the better I know the game, the better mods I can make. So I personally will be releasing just one, my only mod, for Fo3 then moving onto NV around christmas probably.

» Fri Feb 18, 2011 9:30 pm

again, why don't you AT LEAST TRY IT, it's not so bad! beth wouldnt be doing this if they thought it would really mess things up for people! think of it this way: you DON'T NEED TO BE ONLINE 24/7 TO PLAY YOUR GAMES!! theres an OFFLINE MODE!! and it's non-intrusive, really. the only difference between playing it with and without is the little grey box that comes up and says launching game... then it launches! and if you uninstall steam, then you unstall the game with it.

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 7:50 am

You don't even need to give any personally identifiable information when signing up for the account, as I recall. An email address and password are the only requirements to have an account (more for buying games through Steam, obviously). The network information they gather is anonymous, not linked to you.

I know you can turn off Steam's in-game interface (not that it matters, since Steam doesn't even need to be running to play the game from all reports).

Seriously, Steam is better than almost any other kind of DRM.