Ug, Daggerfall -> aggressive Level Scaling same with Arena -> FAR WORSE THEN OBLIVIONS in both instances.

Quasi Duel Wielding you could equip 2 1 hand weapons but not use them at the same time -> very disappointing !!! and worthless overall.

Quest givers that knew less about the locations they were sending you do then some random barmaid !! boring and stupid no thanks not again, it seemed about 70-80% of all the quests were of this type, then there was the fact that to find most of the quest locations you had no choice but to use the fast travel find system as the quest giver nor any npc's would give you ANY information about where to start looking for said locations -> this systems was vastly worse then Morrowinds quests that sent you after the 5th rock on the 3rd path going north by north-west looking for the furry netch hover over a pond you needed to jump into to find that super secret cave only this one npc knows about and was to lazy to mark on your map even though he knows EXACTLY WHERE it is -> no thanks on both accounts.

Overly large world spaces with next to no reason to give a damn about them or ever explore them as there was next to nothing to find.

The ANNOYING I have Cerebral Palsy Combat.

The Unbelievably poor Magic Combat ! Seriously 3 buttons to chose and cast and 2 just to recast a spell who though that was a good idea ?!? it was tedious.

Not saying that DF was the worst game I ever played but its by far not the best TES game hell If I had to rate DF it would only be one step above Arena and Arena is only one step above ET for the Atari as the worst game ever created.

There are so many parts of those games I just found tedious or beyond annoying even for their times that was so unforgivable I refused to buy another TES game it was not until I got Morrowind for free with a video card I was buying that I gave the series another try and since bought Tribunal, Bloodmoon, Oblivion, SI and FO3 as day one games because of how good MW was vs the horrid games that were Arena and DF.



Including to places you have never been to and it was required to use as the game world was so so so large it would take a week (real time) to get to even one place without it, and also it was required to search for locations for quests as quite a few did not give any directions just a location and the only way to find it was with the Fast Travel Find System.



You can not except or even want the Dev's to look at mods and go this was popular we need this because in that case my http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=10819 mod would herald in the age of the Dragon Mount which would suit me just fine -> it would also suit me to have this feature just to piss off the annoying Loremongering, Cannon Spewing idiots around here.

The advantage that the frequenters of this forum have over other informational sources for developers is that these forums have a knowledgeable minority of gamers and modders who have played loads of games and have a concept of what it practical and impractical. The problem is, of course, that these people are drowned out by the sea of complaints over inconsequential details, such as the lack of spears, or some other small element which does not add or detract from the overall game experience to any significant extent.

I would like to hope that legitimate problems, and things that are not opinion-based get noticed, but the week before Fallout went gold I saw a thread asking for a "small addition" which was a request for a cover system. I was not particularly surprised by this thread, having seen many like it. This makes me worry that the developers could either not read these forums much, or dismiss most legitimate concerns as insignificant along with the rest of the trash.

This is a great example of what I mean. 129 people which a small % of the people who even come to these forums, and a very small % of the people who played both games.

The advantage that the frequenters of this forum have over other informational sources for developers is that these forums have a knowledgeable minority of gamers and modders who have played loads of games and have a concept of what it practical and impractical. The problem is, of course, that these people are drowned out by the sea of complaints over inconsequential details, such as the lack of spears, or some other small element which does not add or detract from the overall game experience to any significant extent.

There is a reason people say modders fixed oblivion.

Oblivion so well received? While the general consensus was positive, there was PLENTY of criticism to be found almost anywhere, especially on these boards.

Omniscent guards, non-radiant AI, zombified expressions, horrible level advancement/scaling, clunky PC interface are just a few of them.

It's funny how all the reviews praised the game so much, but only now that Skyrim is announced http://www.pcgamer.com/2010/12/30/15-things-we-want-to-see-in-the-elder-scrolls-v-skyrim/

Couldn't they have mentioned those issues (level scaling in particular) from the start? :whistling:

This is a great topic and should be discussed more often by us fans. It must be very frustrating for Bethesda to try and please the Publisher, the average gamer and the hardcoe fans all at the same time. I think Todd handles this very well (the balance between complexity versus dumbed down) and he's always humble and open about critcism the games get and he admits design flaws, but he also stands for his vision and game design philosophy and explains it very well.

The hardcoe fans would've bought it no matter what, and people who were new to the series LOVED it. Overall, most of the stuff in Oblivion that people had complaints with (other than scaling,) were nitpicky things. Same with Skyrim. Spears are a big deal? Really? They were well-known to be an underused weapon type. People only cared about spears once they were out. Same with pretty much every complaint about the current direction of Skyrim. If they take out spellmaking, it'll be because the base magicka system is more robust. I'll be sad to see it go, but I think what they're doing will make for a better game overall. Classes? I don't remember ever using a premade class. And when I made a custom class, it was a pain to arrange the skills so that I wouldn't gimp my character.


Skyrim will do very well, and four years later people will act like it was a pile of crap compared to the previous games. It's the nature of this community.

Yes, Modders fixed Oblivion. But what if the opposite was true? What if Bethesda created a game so good, that was flawless, and everyone loved it, and because of THAT no one ever used the Construction Set or built any Mods? Then we we would never have a game Mod like Nehrim which is like the total fulfillment of the TES 4's capabilities as they should have been known from the start. But then no one but Bethesda could ever shine, or be known, we would all just be gamers who liked a cool game. And if Bethesda had already achieved perfection, then the next game would merely have to be a copy of the former game with variation in graphics and music and that's all. That wouldn't be very good. Without the flaws, we wouldn't have new systems to try out this go around like Perks. Others may fear the changes, but I welcome those changes and the gaming differences they will create.

And... again, if no one did actually need to create Mods, then in Skyrim the developers wouldn't need to offer the CS. And then there wouldn't BE any ability to fix anything to your own tastes. Because no one will ever agree on what "perfect" means unless you define perfection as "What each individual percieves as being perfect" then perhaps we can agree on what the word "perfect" means.

I theorize to myself now, which is different from how I felt a while ago, that maybe Bethesda's innefficiency in game design is the reason so many others have had a chance to shine and get their own names known? I mean, you designers of Nehrim and all those Modders whose mods they included, I love you all! How great that Bethesda made some errors, so you could benefit from that!

But remember it was Bethesda who gave us the CS in the first place, so despite the Modder's successes, Bethesda still gets the credit for that. The circle goes round and round .... hahaha

It's almost like, let's say you didn't knew anything about Elder Scrolls and you accidentally happened to browse these forums, you'd get the impression that it's a very mediocre game series that people here are discussing.

Daggerfall had fast travel to everywhere...

I don't know who your referring too. There will always be some hack jobs, but most are not. Very rarely does any game get a 10 from the sites I go to(Gamespot,IGN, sometimes 1up), very rarely (if ever) does a review say anything about being the best game ever and also very rarely does a game get game of the year. Lots of company's have deep pockets why don't we see more of what you say? Please stick to the facts, give proof to back up your assertions. Just because a small % are not credible does not mean they all aren't.

I am not being paid by anyone yet I generally agree with Gamespots reviews as an example. And I use to with EGM back when when I read it all the time. High quality stuff imo.

I disagree. You know what games have the best and most active modding community's, the best and most popular games. If Oblivion was a bad game people would not have wanted to mod for it, same with MW,etc. Why didn't Two World 1 get a lot of mods, it had a mod kit? Because no one cared enough to bother for such a sub par game. The best games get the most active modding community's, period.

I agree. I think the best thing anyone can do is read over a list of reviews from a bunch of sources about games that you already own and love and choose one or more reviewers that most match your opinions. If the reviewer matches your opinion in most cases, then it's probably safe to say that you can trust their opinion. Personally, I trust IGN the most. It's very rare when they give a review about a game that I disagree with so I trust their opinion on games and their recommendations.