I can understand that. I wouldnt want someone to tell me that I cant participate in something that I want to do because of my ethnicity....unless its one of those extremely racist movement stuff then I dont care.

Not sure if it was Queen Ayrenn or Kate Beckinsale who seduced them

The reasons that are being given are built on the cynical idea that the majority of people playing games are not only males, but males who will for some reason take issue with a game promoting a female character in a large capacity. That kind of thinking ignores more than one demographic. In addition to women, it ignores men who wouldn't be opposed to games that focus on female characters in a non-sixualized way/give you the ability to play as a female character.

So yes, there are reasons. But the reasons are stupid and speak of a low opinion of customers. And stupid reasons are hardly reasons to do something. Because they're stupid. There were reasons women couldn't wear pants before, but we don't enforce them anymore. Because those reasons were stupid.

My rationale has nothing to do with being offended or political correctness. Character creation has always been a large part of Fallout and TES, and I think it would be wise of Bethesda to promote that in their advertisemants. You know, showcase a selling point of the series? I was initially uninterested in getting Skyrim because, as the first game of the series that I saw the marketing push for, I saw some generic viking dude I had no interest in playing as in all the advertisemants, and I saw those advertisemants way before I heard about the ability to play as another gender, let alone races like Argonians. Had Bethesda diversified their marketing, I would know right away about that feature and my interest would've been sparked much sooner.

Customers shouldn't have to look around to find a game's selling points. The advertisemants should be making them obvious. You know, since an advertisemant exists to sell the product.

If Fallout 4 does lock you into a voiced male protagonist, I won't be getting the game anytime soon. Not because I'm offended, but because features I like from previous games have been stripped away and replaced with things I don't want.

NEIN!

Sorry, had to do that. And it does matter because this is a videogame series that practically LIVES off of two things: character creation and the 'be whatever you want to be' mantra. With this in mind, why would they show JUST the white male 111? Why just show the white Imperial/Nord male? Or Dunmer male? If I were Bethesda, I'd have trailers that showcased the main character as every different combo of gender and race possible to really hit home that this game truly allows you to be whatever you want to be. This isn't Rockstar where you're forced to play a white dude. In Bethesda's game, he's just one of the infinite number of gender/race combo the main character can be.


See what I wrote before your quote. It's not just about giving a representation for women and non-whites, it's also actually sticking true to their own frickin' mantra. Had I never played Fallout before, I would've assumed we were playing a white male dude. Showcasing a Vault 111 Main Character that was black/white/Asian/Hispanic and male/female in the trailers would get me excited that much faster.

That mirrors my first exposure to Skyrim.

I think the previous Fallout games and the RPG system showcase everything perfectly. Do you think Bethesda doesn't do it coz they're sixist? I'm sure they know what's the best for their games.

It's such a silly "issue".

I just saw dragons and bought it...

But no, there's nothing wrong in talking about the representation of gender, race, hell even species if we're talking Skyrim as another poster said, it's what makes Bethesda's games so interesting.

I never said anything about them being sixist, but the often cited reason for promoting games by pushing women into the background is stupid, cynical, and speaks of a low opinion of customers in general.

I just think they've made some bad marketing decisions, their head of PR isn't the best I've ever seen, and their QA/debugging teams are either woefully understaffed/under utilized or just horrible at their jobs.

And I think the idea of expecting (Hell, just wanting) customers to look back on previous Fallout games to see if they can play as anything besides Blandy 111 is a terrible idea. Creates more steps between customer learning of your product and customer buying your product, runs the risk of seeing just how buggy your past games have been and deciding that it isn't worth the gamble, and again, defeats the entire point of making advertisemants for your game.

Well, it's Bethesda's choice and it's their problem. I don't know what else to say about it

But I agree it would be better for the marketing to showcase all of the possibilites and types of characters you can play.

Personally, I don't care who they put in the trailer, I'd still buy it.

I've been reading the thread and:

1. Nobody said bethesda is sixist

2. Nobody said it's an issue

3. It's not about being politically correct

It's just "wouldn't it be nice if they showed a woman in their trailers" I don't see an issue with that?

1. That's why it was a question

2. That's why I've put it under " "

3. To an extent. There's always someone who'll object

It wouldn't bother me if they showed a woman in the trailers. I don't see an issue with it always being a male either(except maybe for marketing)

Exactly this. Play the game for the sake of the game, not based on whether it caters to your political views or not.

No i would like the protagonist to be a man because i always play as a male. As for the case that there are female Players they are most likely used to having male protagonists since they joined playing the games when they were presented with male protagonists (Skyrim, Fallout 3 etc.).

Feminism a too complex and nuanced of a discussion for the internet, I think. I'll just say one thing: The "internet feminism," the radical, man-hating stuff is definitely less than 1% of feminists around the world. I've seen way too many people who get their info from reddit, [censored], anon-whatever, and such websites and think they know about "the state" of feminism and equality. You get a really skewed view of equality and feminism if your research is looking at the extremists. It's like saying CHRISTIANS = WESTBORO BAPTIST CHURCH, DOWN WITH ALL RELIGIONS.

Also, I don't think suggesting a company to have a little more diversity when they represent their games is being politically correct. This is why I said the subject is too complex for internet discussion, because "I'd be nice to have a different gender protagonist" = crazy feminism. "I'd be nice to have a different race protagonist" = politically correct. You evade all discussion by putting someone who is making a reasonable request into a box with negative connotation that you know will trigger automatic dislike by most people.

EDIT: lol, why is the word 4cha* censored?

Too much PC, SJW, and feminist stuff.

The reason why a Female Protagonist should be in the game is none of those reasons. The reasons why and I believe that Female will be an option due to playing as the Mother is.

Tradition- It's been a while since Redguard which was the last BGS game to not have females. Doubt that's going to change. Even the previous 4 Fallout's had both gender options.

The Mother- I truly believe that this will be an option at the beginning of the game.

Current Gen- Higher Memory should allow more options for a female dialoge, something that last gen couldn't do which is one of the reasons it's not on 360/PS3.

Replayability- Pretty self explanatory

Alienating Fan Base- Why would you alienate a good portion of your fanbase, even though 80% of Fallout 4 players will play as Male it would be dumb to alienate that 20 or even higher because of not selecting both genders

Ubisoft- Ubisoft made the ridiculous BS statement that it would take too much time to add female animations, Beth's not stupid they know this and won't repeat the same mistake.

There might be more but that's all I can think of right now. E3 should answer this question and put it to rest, hopefully.

Look, Bethesda knows it can't win this argument no matter what they do.

Use a female model and you will get guys talking about jiggle factor and women leveling charges of reducing the model to a six object.

They just take less flak by showing a male avatar. OK?

This entire subject is toxic ever since the SJW-GamerGate conflicts.

Some simple facts and things to consider:

-I believe I recall a study that showed men don't really care what gender they play whereas women are happier playing as women.

-There's no reason to read too much into what Bethesda chooses as their protagonist. The protagonist is either going to be someone they can market, someone that ties into the story, or someone that the creators themselves can relate to. There's no reason to presume Bethesda are sixist or anything if they choose to keep spitting out white males as protagonists.

-Realistically speaking, there actually is a case to be made for those claiming a female protagonist is "less realistic." The subject of gender equality has popped up multiple times, and eventually something happened: someone cited how repeatedly, male athletes in the Olympics will all out-perform the women significantly. Typically, the last place male competitor will still surpass the gold medal female competitor. This is not to say women always lose in combat situations because how much time is spent dedicated to something is still a large factor, it's merely to highlight that if two people both dedicate the same amount of time to something physical, yes the male will surpass the female. This is still a fantasy setting so such strict adherence to statistics like this isn't neccesary, especially when you can always just assume your female protagonist was more dedicated to combat than any males she beat, I merely mention this to say that yes, it is actually fairly reasonable if someone says "I find it immersion breaking if my heroes are all female" since that would be quite farfetched in a realistic scenario.

Personally, I'm for it, but moreso in the sense that I'm for diversity in general. Let's assume the default faces and characters shown in past Fallout titles are the canon protagonists, since we at least know this is correct for Albert Cole in FO1 (or extremely heavily implied) and both the FO3 and FO:NV promotional videos show the default Lone Wanderer and Courier repeatedly. This is how they look:

Fallout 1: Caucasian male with black or brown hair who eventually wore Power Armor and had a dog companion. Good karma.

Fallout 2: Caucasian male with black or brown hair who eventually wore Power Armor and had a number of companions. Good karma.

Fallout Tactics: Black male, bald, who eventually wore Power Armor and had a number of companions. Neutral karma.

Fallout 3: Caucasian male with brown hair who eventually wore Power Armor and had a dog companion. Good karma.

Fallout New Vegas: Caucasian male with blonde hair who presumably preferred light armor and had an eyebot companion. Likely neutral karma.

Fallout 4: Caucasian male with black hair who presumably will wear Power Armor and have a dog companion. Likely Good karma.

Only two of those seem to really jump out as being different in more than one category at a time. I'd love to see different protagonists simply for the sake of that giving them more character and personality to me. A female protagonist would do that, though a number of things would too.

You are assuming that the female model would have to be young and conventionally attractive. Why?

Nah. They haven't used any jiggle physics before, nor using half naked female models. You're exaggerating just to protest using a female PC in the trailer.

I think what he's referring to is more that the same crowd that complains when there's not a female protagonist is never happy. AKA, you say she shouldn't be conventionally attractive, they'll make her covered with scars and with a shaved head and wrinkles, then what happens? "Why isn't she overweight? Is this fatshaming?" Or "why is she white?"

There's just no point in even trying.

First time I've seen at least something that more or less guarantee we'll be able to play a female PC. Otherwise it would make zero sense to have an action girl perk.

Well, that and the fact that every single Bethesda RPG and every single Fallout game has given you the choice of gender and race

I'd be shocked if they didn't give you the choice.

People who say "it does not matter"; 9 out of 10 triple A games have a male lead. This simple facts thus show us that it obviously does matter to many what gender the lead has. So instead of telling us that want to change this that it does not matter, tell it to all the people that want male leads almost all the time.

Also ones views on gender and biology is irrelevant, IMO. this is the virtual world, I don't see people cry about magic and dragons in games, nothing natural about either. But women? Then suddenly all the it's natural this and biology that arguments starts flying. Just. Let. It. Go.

You are assuming that I am a snot nosed 12 year old who has just hit puberty. Why?

I am telling you that the only female model they could use that won't draw fire is "the idealized woman who is not ideal". People are so sensitive on the subject that they would catch hell no matter what she looked like. They could put up a Lego Land female and would be taken to task.

I'd be a bit shocked, too. But considering how typical it is (not Bethesda but the game industry at large) I'd also not be that surprised. But if it only lets you play a pre-generated dude I would expect the game no to be called Fallout 4, it would not make much sense I think. It would instead be called something like; Fallout: Vault Dweller Chronicles. Or something.