The entertainment industry needs its own "prisoner born on an uncertain date, under uncertain stars".

Lest we forget that they essentially butchered the Fallout franchise.

I also loved Fallout 3, but all in all at the end of the day it has very little to do with Fallout 1 and 2 in gameplay and in story. I know they bought the title, but they really killed the spirit of the game; game developers need to show respect for great classic titles.

Although I don't share his opinion on all fronts (I don't consider Bethesda as big a cash-gouger as say, Activision), I do agree with him on one extremely depressing point: They are slowly wandering away from the hardcoe player, players who want to scrutinize every little detail to squeeze just that slight bit more damage out, or waste hours upon hours upon hours creating a godlike warrior. Oblivion was definitely geared towards a more casual audience, as the original poster said - and I see Skyrim continuing this trend further. Sadly though, as a gamer, you're pretty much held in a stranglehold as ALL devellopers are recessing into this awful habit. Deus Ex gets regenerating health and third-person actions; Splinter Cell turned to action; Command and Conquer held your hand for unit selection; Supreme Commander simplified all it's mechanics so the less intelligent could grasp them; Rainbow Six got third-person cover... There's literally not a single game I can think of that's still focused on the core gamer any more. If a fool with a double-digit IQ can't play it, it isn't being develloped.

Come on, that's like expecting nature to choose the strongest species to live the longest. In a one on one, so many species would wtf pwn humans. Yet here we are.

Morrowind and Oblivion were two different games, with two different directions. I love Oblivion, but god it did so many things so wrong it was funny. The bandits with glass armor made me laugh, seriously. I laugh every time I see one.

Why shouldn't you compare the games? Because they have different titles. They said so themselves, they start from scratch with almost every single TES game. I love this idea. Seriously, its probably the main reason why I love TES so much. It removes the probability of getting stuck in a rut.

Dragonball Z. So much about this, I love. Goku, Gohan...Videl, Vegeta, Krillin, Yamcha, Tien, Chaoitzu, Piccolo, 17, 18, 16, I love the series to death. But the games...oh my kami the games are so stuck in a rut it hurts. If they started from scratch with every dbz game...my gaming experience would be so much better.

Morrowind from Oblivion to Fallout 3. The Dev had the guts to try something new, something different. That is such a good thing. I think I know this a lot more because of DBZ. DBZ is so stuck in a rut, it may never get out. While Beth scraps everything and then starts again. That is so gutzy, so brave. It makes absolutely no business sense, but it makes so much gaming sense.

I agree with you in the end. The game should feel like it is progressing, and it does to me. Its your opinion that it doesnt, and I don't agree. Morrowind did some things right, Oblivion did some things right...Fallout 3 did some things right...the game is progressing to me. I can see the games getting better as they go. People actually looke human to me, the screenshot of the bar-maid was amazing. She looked hot. She really looked like a woman. That has never happened before. A hot girl in a TES game? Seriously, its happening.

Combat looks like its progressing. Duel-wielding looks like it won't be just a gimic. Perk tree's look like they're increase the uniqueness of the players characters...writing this game off due to Fallout 3 and Oblivion just doesn't make sense to me. So much has changed, grown. Its illogical to me. I just can't make heads or tails of what you guys are saying.

You basicaly state the problem without knowing it. Saying the games now are aimed at 10-13 year olds...

No. The games are now aimed at people younger then you at heart.

Congrats you now know how your dad felt and his dad and his and so on down the ages to the cave men. The oldest known writting was this basic complaint.... Likely the last will be too.

Did you realy think the game would last forever?

Haha! Isn't it though? To be honest it was TLDR anyway but I saw the key words that gave me all I need to know; "morrowind player", "cash cow" "oblivion" and "terrible".. Don't these people ever use the SEARCH function when making clone posts?

To the OP: did you REALLY take the time to write all that just to enforce your negativity in an official forum (where real Bethesda fans obviously run aplenty) and try to ruin it for all of us who are actually excited? Its one thing to post your concerns in the relevant topic (and boy are there plenty for you to choose from), but its quite another thing to make a totally new topic to post the same complaints that are being made time and time again by the exact same genre of people. Classy, man, very, very classy. :lmao:

Um okay don`t buy it then.

I will and I know i`m going to love it more than all previous TES games...and that`s coming from someone who played Arena onwards.

Bethesda are a business at the end of the day. Whilst I don't doubt the employees passion for the game, I also don't doubt what would be said in a board room.

1 "We should place X in and leave Y out"
2 "Great! why?"
1 "Well it would appeal to this audience..."
2 "Ok... but won't it exclude this bigger audience?"
1 "Well yeah but.."
2 "And if this 'bigger audience' wasn't to buy the game.... what effect would that have on revenue?"
1 "Well.... about $6,000,000... If ALL of them didn't buy.. but.."
2 "But what?....."
1 "But I preferred..."
2 " 'you' preferred? "
1 " well..."
2 *sigh* "... How much do I pay you?...."



Everyone has a subjective view as to what makes a great game. However companies will always look objectively at what can appeal to the widest mass and create the biggest profit. That's just good business.

I think the fact that Bethesda allow for a modding community, more than makes up for the minority who think the game has taken the wrong direction.

The gameplay mechanics with Morrowind i felt was lacking, while had a great environment and story, i felt like the mechanics held it down. That's what i meant. Morrowind to me was a better game overall but Oblivion had better mechanics to me.

To me they are trying to make Skyrim better than both Morrowind and Oblivion. They are trying multiple environments in game, new fight mechanics (by the sound of it), seems like they are trying to up the story even thou envolving dragons. I don't know to me they are trying to improve and not be just a mainstream game. I think the OP has every right to have all his opinions, but i feel like he is bashing what he isn't completely sure of yet. I feel like give BGS another chance, FO3 improved on some of Oblivions faults. And i think that they are trying to make Skyrim back to the previous glory of the series. And i hope that he will at least rent the game to see if he likes it.

Faulty anology is faulty.



I can agree to that :foodndrink:

BUT, though I do like the more Real-time action oriented combat system, oblivion did introduce some glaring issues along with it. The Oblivion combat system was a good system that was poorly executed. They also turned the magic system into glorified archery, and thats not saying much since the bows weren't very fun to use either.

You're acting like they're two completely unrelated games. Well I'm afraid that they're not. They're prequels and sequels respectively, made by the same game studio. They must be compared.


Why are you talking about Dragonball Z? I never mentioned that...


Graphics are nothing to be that impressed over. It's a technological advancement that is the industry standard. Think if Bethesda still made games with Morrowind level graphics..they would be a laughing stock. What I'm concerned about here is the progress stemming from real novelty and innovation. Perks are nothing innovative, they're just something new that's needlessly replacing a system which I thought functioned perfectly in the first place. Having said that, I could be proven wrong about Perks if they are implemented properly. However, the degeneration of skills is not good at all.

Lol... like it has done for the last 3 1/2 billion years? :shrug:

I don't think that's a fair assumption. I think Oblivion will be remembered quite well in a couple decades, along with Morrowind. My optimistic side hopes they will be remember individually for what they brought to the series as a whole, not as diametrically opposed games that have warring fanbases.


I respectfully disagree. Morrowind had a better presented main quest, I'll give you that. But the side quests in Oblivion felt much more a part of the world as opposed to random tasks that random people ask of you. This was due in no small part to the voice acting, and how characters better portayed emotion. The guild quest lines, while fewer overall, where much more cohesive narratives. The Mages Guild quests certainly felt like I was part of a story, with the broken Council of Mages and Mannimarco's assault on the guild. People praise the Dark Brotherhood quests for being quite good with a story of betrayal. Oblivion's world feels much more alive to me, due to advances in AI and character interaction over Morrowind. Some things were lost in the process, sure (fewer overall dialog lines, etc), but overall, it wasn't some great net loss. And it can very much still improve as we go into the future.

i believe in bethesda,they were born by doing rol games for hardcoe gamers and they will never let down their followers :thumbsup: bethesda keep the good work :touched:

I'm sorry but this is getting old. I hear a bunch of complaining about a game that hasn't even released a gameplay video yet. I would like to know how you know this game is going to be terrible and there is no point in buying it? Bethesda puts time and effort into their games. Don't believe me? Watch the development of Oblivion videos, they are on youtube. This shows the effort they put into it, and the final product shows as well. If you have actually played 1000 hours of gameplay, then the game obviously kept you hooked. If it didn't, why did you keep playing? Plus I'm a teenager and I loved Morrowind, but I also loved Oblivion. How about we stop comparing each game and take it in as its own masterpiece?

I could go on forever, but I won't. Once you play the game, feel free to judge. Until then, for the love of god stop complaining.

Couldn't agree more.

While I wont defend his post, I know that some of us doom-sayers arn't trying to "ruin" the experience for anyone. If you liked the gameplay of the previous games, and people are asking for some of those elements back, logic dictates you'd still have a very enjoyable game on your hands. On the other side of the coin though, some of us really liked what the series once was, and don't like the new direction the game is taking, so for us, the experience is being ruined...

Never-the-less, I agree, a thread which exists only to whine without contributing is a rather silly thread.

I'd be perfectly happy with the perk system if they'd just [censored] call them abilities. I mean at least TRY to make it look like Fallout 3 isn't just Oblivion with guns.

With a name like "Dovahkiin: Dragon Born" some would assume you were a Skyrim "really devoted fan" before the game title was even released. Your optimism is palpable, but remaining skeptical of the game before it's release is healthy.

Yeah i agree but i feel like they are trying to fix all that from the combat to the magic. So :foodndrink: for Skyrim.

I got the name because I joined after the game was announced, so part of it was excitement. No, I'm not going to judge the game before I play it like everyone else seems to do, but I will once I play it. If I like it, awesome! If I don't, thats really disappointing.

I can't have a name based on a game announcement? Now a forum name matters?

Yes, let's all bash the company that rescued the franchise from being forever lost to history. (sarcasm intended)

If there is someone I view as "whiny teens", it's the people that goes "Waaah, Oblivion wasn't Morrowind 2!". I don't care what you buy or don't buy, but that kind of rant is something I stopped taking seriously a long time ago. I am not a teen, I loved both Morrowind and Oblivion, and I can't wait to get my hands on Skyrim. You go and sulk if you want.

1) I read the OP
2) I laughed
3) I'm still laughing
4) I posted this comment

They don't have to be compared. Really, they don't. I played Oblivion first. I then played Morrowind, and then Daggerfall. I wen't completely backwards, learning the lore completely in the wrong direction. Yet I had fun. I mean I really had fun. I didn't comair the games, I played each game as it stood. Each game had issues, and each game had its strong points. Oblivion is a great game, yet it gets slammed, only because it came after Morrowind. Morrowind was fun as well, you could do a lot more things in Morrowind when compaired to Oblivion. Yet at the same time, Oblivion had strong points over Morrowind. The games are prequals, and sequals...but theyr'e stand alone games. People who play Oblivion don't need to know what happened in Morrowind.

Obivion was such a great game, yet it gets overshadowed by Morrowind. Oblivion could have been so sweet if it took some of the things Morrowind had, but it didnt. It just didn't. Is that a problem? Yes. But does that take away from Oblivion itself? No. Oblivion was a great game. Standing alone, it is a great rpg. Morrowind standing alone is a great rpg. They were two different games made in different times. Different things were expected.

I brought up DBZ because it is a great example. I know you didnt mention it, I did.

I can play a game with mario grafics, if the gameplay is solid. If the grafics are amazing, but the gameplay is horrible, i just can't play the game. You're right, graffics are nothing that amazing. And perks are nothing new...but waving perks off because they share the same name as fallout 3 is just beyond me. Perk tree's show the opertunity for pure swordsman to really be pure swordsmen. Classes could be more important now more than ever.

Skills...I hate skills in rpgs. I hate them. I hate them, I hate them, I hate them. I started rpgs from forum based ones. No skills, just moves that mods let us have. Yet, I was still able to rpg...even more so due to the lack of numbers. Numbers don't make a game an rpg. An rpg lets you choose a role, a character to play with and then lets you play it. Other games give you roles, but rpgs let you make your own. Rpgs don't mean numbers and spread sheats. They were a needed evil so one could tell how they were progressing in a game. Skills are a out of game representation of how good I am at something. I would love an ingame representation instead.

How does one know if someone is better at something in real life? Its blatantly obious. I wish I could draw, but I can't. I'm pretty good at soccer, so much that I'd be willing to take on just about anyone. Its obvious when two people go head to head, who's the better one. Skills are just a number representation of what my character can and can not do. I seriously want to see an rpg that has no visible skills or atributes. I want to break from numbers and spread sheats. I dont' want to be tied to them any more than I need to be.