1. What the heck is that? It's either a mod or a cute name for a spell with perfectly ordinary effects like damage and paralysis. We still have those effects. This isn't something novel and new, it's just a name.

2. You can't customize anything like that without a mod. You can use the effects they give you and that's it.

3. That is not a trap. That won't stay put until triggered like a trap. That is just a way to hit a target even if you miss.

There's no reason for you to throw around insults, especially when the "ill-informed" people don't seem to know any less than you. You're making things up and trying to make spell-creation into more than it was.

The only thing missing is the ability to add more than 2 effects. I've already said that, and nothing you have shown me is any different.

We will no longer have the ability to create a unique character build at the beginning of the game, with inherent strengths and weaknesses. That's a loss to me.

Like I figured, I gave perfect examples that were in Vanilla OB and you just want to argue after being proven wrong. Learn more about spell creation. Im out, Peace. You just apparently dont know what you could do with SC. I didnt make anything up. Its totally optional, if you dont like it, then dont use it.

You think reading the http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Useful_Spells on spell effects counts as you being unique and creative?

Like I said, the only thing those spells are is a combination of effects, all of which we still have. The only thing you are missing is the ability to combine more than 2, just like I said.

I have quite a few of those spells in my list in OB. They're just spells with multiple effects, they're not custom or unique.

You, by accusing me of not knowing anything and then failing to elaborate for whatever reason, were just acting like you know something special but that others just can't understand.

I'm not stupid son. Acting like that isn't going to get you anywhere. What you said is that you could create custom effects. You can't.

Good. Your incessant petty bickering over what other people think has contributed absolutely nothing to this board. This will be a much better place if you just accept the fact that other people are going to post opinions that you won't necessarily agree with. I look forward to the opportunity to read the opinions of others without you crashing into every thread to argue with them.

I'm divided. Half of me has the above mindset, while the other half hated class restrictions.

I'm not trying to be critical with your reply, so please don't take this that way (I have language issues, so I tend to be pretty direct . . . which is often taken in the wrong way).

But I really don't understand this. A LOT of members here seem to be against anything that will put limitations (such as class restrictions) on their character in any way. Yet, without limits, every character would not only start out exactly the same . . . they could end up exactly the same. Limitations (what I refer to as inherent strengths and weaknesses) are what make each character build truly unique. It is what makes a Thief build different from a Warrior build, which is different from a Mage build. I thought that unique character builds were one of the things about TES that really appealed to most of us.

I thought that unique character builds were one of the things about TES that really appealed to most of us.

I'm not trying to be critical with your reply, so please don't take this that way (I have language issues, so I tend to be pretty direct . . . which is often taken in the wrong way).

But I really don't understand this. A LOT of members here seem to be against anything that will put limitations (such as class restrictions) on their character in any way. Yet, without limits, every character would not only start out exactly the same . . . they could end up exactly the same. Limitations (what I refer to as inherent strengths and weaknesses) are what make each character build truly unique. It is what makes a Thief build different from a Warrior build, which is different from a Mage build. I thought that unique character builds were one of the things about TES that really appealed to most of us.

Yes, characters could become the same, just as you could also pick the same attributes and traits at the beginning.

Don't really see much difference here :shrug:

I think they prefer the "start every character differently but they all become the same in the end" approach rather than "Start with a blank slate and create a unique character from there". Something like that.

I'm not trying to be critical with your reply, so please don't take this that way (I have language issues, so I tend to be pretty direct . . . which is often taken in the wrong way).

But I really don't understand this. A LOT of members here seem to be against anything that will put limitations (such as class restrictions) on their character in any way. Yet, without limits, every character would not only start out exactly the same . . . they could end up exactly the same. Limitations (what I refer to as inherent strengths and weaknesses) are what make each character build truly unique. It is what makes a Thief build different from a Warrior build, which is different from a Mage build. I thought that unique character builds were one of the things about TES that really appealed to most of us.

I tend to try and keep this in mind, at least until the game comes out and we can see for ourselves:

1. Just because certain skills are removed, that does not mean that the function of those skills is gone. Mysticism, running speed, and athleticism are all featured in the game, they are just not under the same labels.

2. While attributes themselves have been "removed," they are not actually gone. The functions that they served will likely be entirely preserved in Skyrim, simply not called "attributes."

3. While spellmaking may be gone, the most desirable effects of spellmaking will remain (such as ever-increasing spell strength and changing targets or effect types), while the undesirable effects do not.

4. While classes themselves may have been taken out, there's nothing that classes ever did that you can't still do in Skyrim. If you want to give your character some skills and experience at the start of the game to represent his/her past, you can still do that by boosting some skills or "attributes."

So just try to keep in mind that each of these things was never more than a fiction, an illusion designed to represent something else. Now that "something else" has been added to the game directly, so that we don't have the clunky mechanics and spreadsheet numbers that build our characters, we simply have character.

There isn't anything lost by removing these things, the function that they were intended to perform is still there, but better and harder to see. This, friends, is superior.

I think they prefer the "start every character differently but they all become the same in the end" approach rather than "Start with a blank slate and create a unique character from there". Something like that.

Your opinions that everything is "still there" suggests that you have sufficient detailed information on what they have been replaced with. I have yet to see a fan post or interview that knows the details of these new systems any better than the skeptics. Most of your points are faith-based, unless you can direct me to an interview or gameplay footage that suggests otherwise. Please don't mention perks unless you have their finalized list in front of you...

I think they prefer the "start every character differently but they all become the same in the end" approach rather than "Start with a blank slate and create a unique character from there". Something like that.

Not really a huge fan of Terry Goodkind's writing, but these forums are a perfect example of the Wizard's First Rule.

The optimists believe what they want to be true.
The pessimists believe what they fear to be true.
Most of the rhetoric on both sides is faith-based. Only limited facts are available and even most of those can be interpreted multiple ways.

Let's at least see some concrete gameplay footage and explanation of mechanics before we go off the deep end please.

I lean a little to the optimist side, but only because nerdrage feels undignified, somewhat futile, and could very well be embarrassing down the road. Mostly I'm waiting on real facts.

Oh crap I just came up with an AWESOME Idea


How about....everyone starts differently...and everyone ends differently? :teehee: I mean as it stands by the words of Todd everyones game wont be the same in how they play out..which the same can be said for all previous games BUT in a more tacticle sense regarding how quests play out or whos alive and who's dead so Why can't peoples game be different from beginning middle and end? I mean whats the problem with revamped birthsigns? that are BLESSINGS upon certain people since not all are born under a star and not all are born with the blessings of that sign? Obviously the Players char WAS A PERSON before they were in jail...so why can't their past effect their future?

No, because that never happened.
I like the 'start with a unique character that guarantees a unique playthrough' approach that birthsigns had.