Tamriel is a large place, a beautiful place, and has a very unique feel. Especially Morrowind. I'm sure later extension will bring newer and more interesting graphics to the plate that is this giant place, and I'm all for new graphics. But while everyone is clamoring about wanting something new, I rarely hear anyone wanting Bethesda to please add just a TASTE OF CONTINUITY to your games, going forward.

Why is there no Telvanni "mushroom" towers anywhere in Cyrodil? I realize you wanted to do all new graphics, but actually for Tamriel to believable as a unified world-space (even though the games are set in different provinces), I would think SOME continuity would be appreciated by people like me, the fans of the original style. I'm not here to bash Oblivion, I'm here to ASK for some continuity in Skyrim and the games you build going forward. I won't give any answers at this point, I'll just ask you some questions and see if you understand why I ask for this:

1.So you're saying that Morrowind is locked down under a dictatorship territorial rule and no one can ever leave, right? Otherwise, wouldn't some of the more rich nobles and lords, or the wizards of Telvanni, who migrate out of Morrowind ... wouldn't they build strongholds that reflect the style to which they've grown accustomed? Many Japanese and/or Chinese people with great wealth, when they come to America, build palaces similar to the look of their homeland. They are settled in America, but their homes all look like they were transported from their homeland to America. I think it would be nice to be reminded, once in a while (again, not too often, just once in a while), that the current game owes itself to the previous game's legacy.

2. No building crews in Cyrodil were allowed to copy the unique and interesting visual style of Morrowind, or any other province, in your games? I'm not saying everything should look like the old game, don't get me wrong, I DO want a lot of new and interesting locations, but once in a great while, when it's suitable to do so, you should throw in a "easter egg" of having an Imperial City watch-tower sitting in a Skyrim city that supports the Empire there. Or if a wizard moved from Morrowind to Skyrim, then why not allow him to build his own mushroom tower, of course, with all new updated textures for your newer updated game? If you threw in the ability to add such familiar old-style (MW) terrain buildings, then other Modders could also add some of the previous flavor into the game whereever they wanted, because you included some of the models and textures to allow for that. Perhaps those people over there working on http://www.tamriel-rebuilt.org/?p=faq could also use Skyrim as a way to update their 10-year project without having to start over entirely from scratch? This idea would give them, and all of us, a pathway to inherit the legacy of their work in future games, too.

Bethesda, please try to think about (at least consider) uniting the entire Tamriel map architecture into Skyrim! Or at least plan ahead for this kind of thing one day, so that when you have all of the ideas for architecture sort of pre-planned out. You should get some artists to plan ahead for the building style in Hammerfell going forward, and put some of those building on the West border of Skyrim. And take some of the architecture cities in Valenwood and bring in one or two examples of that in some of the cities, too.

Of course, there should be plenty of NEW stuff we've never seen before, or it could feel stale. If this kind of idea is used, I think it should be used very rarely, to sort of pepper in memories of Morrowind and the other Provinces. So that the longer we play your games, the more like a real world Tamriel will become. We are spending the greatest amount of our off-work hours lost in your world ... its your legacy, and our escape, and I really don't think each game should feel so far removed from the feelings created by the previous game.

Just looking through the pictures on the Tamriel Rebuilt website made me feel incredibly homesick. The first few pictures I looked at were horrible due to my mind thinking forward about Skyrim and its awesome graphics (in my opinion), but as I continued to look at them, I felt overwhelmed by the art style, by the feeling those places generate in my mind that Oblivion did not give me. I would sincerely like to see some of Morrowind's architecture show up going forward, and some of MW AND Skyrim's architecture show up going into the next game, too.

Show us the future, yes, but don't let us forget the past.

I agree with you! It would be really nice if they somehow mixed in all the old stuff with the new stuff.

Last line in your post is freaking cool!

Yes but not all of those things exist in some places.

Skyrim will be far better than Oblivion... Have no fear. It has already confirmed there will be Dunmer heavy cities and that means Dunmer architecture which (I hope) means giant mushrooms.

It would be nice yes, but it does make sense for areas to look different also...Let alone the games are set years apart and large, separate provinces. I agree with what you are saying though, I do want to see landmarks of past games and designs.

It would be cool if whenever a new ES game came out, it included with it a revamped version of the old areas with the new engine and etc. For example think if Skyrim had Morrowinds and Obvlivions landscapes with it. But thats a tall order.

I think it's nice that they do something really new and fresh every time. That is obviosly Bethesdas way of thinking. That's why every game is uniqe. If you miss the giant mushrooms, simply go and play morrowind! I love Morrowind so much, so if there would be to much of that in Skyrim it would leave a bad taste in my mouth. Don't get stuck in the past!

Let's instead create something new, but just as (or more) awesome as Morrowind.

They started that sort of thing in Oblivion, where Bruma had Nord architecture and Cheydinhal had Morrowind architecture (though the second wasn't really, just more like the Imperial towns in Morrowind). But it would be nice to see some more of it. The picture of the city on the rock bridge (which I think is Solitude) appears to have a blocky English castle style similar to the Imperial forts in Morrowind, so that's something. It would be nice if Falkreath showed elements of Redguard architecture or there was a camp with yurts East of Riften and stuff.

The Telvanni mushroom towers were a product of Morrowinds unique geography because of the influence of red mountain. Building them anywhere else would be impossible or ridiculously hard. But some continuity between the games is always nice.

Hahaha, you did say "ridiculously hard" right after impossible ... so I agree with not impossible.... An elder mage wishing to retire away from the ash-clouds and soot of the Red Mountains might want to move to the richer imperial kingdoms in Cyrodil and yet still maintain that idyllic Mushroom tower feeling that makes the Dunmer outlands so appealing and different. He'd buy a rich piece of land and cast a spell to fertilize the soil. Then he'd pour out some kind of a potion made from ash of the Red Mountains and fungi culled from other towers to create a fledgling growth and, with the proper care and attention, would help it to grow up to the advlt-sized towers we've all grown to love.

Hard, but not impossible. I mean, heck, if they wanted to, they could event go so far as to recreate just one city from Morrowind with today's refreshed graphics, and then require you to go there for a series of missions. But say, you can't leave the area because it's been quarantined ... to explain why you can't go anywhere else. You could wander anywhere inside Balmora, for example, if that was the re-created city they chose. Or Vivic ... you just couldn't go anywhere else. Now that would be a huge mind trip, wouldn't it? Halfway through Skyrim's main quest, you get a letter requiring you to teleport to Balmora, Vivec, or some other main city of Morrowind, and you see it's been entirely redone with new models, textures, while keeping the constistence look, style, and appearance we've all come to know.

What an easter egg THAT would be! I wish I had never thought of this idea now.... jeesh.... I want it too bad now. Hahahaha.

Why would a Telvanni want to leave Morrowind, for Cyrodill? Aren't they like, extremely conservative, and they really dislike the empire? They said that the Telvanni in Vvanderfell are exceptions, but they're still way too stuck up, and closed from the outside. None of the great houses seem to leave Morrowind, I can only think of a few Hlaalu people appearing in Oblivion.

But on the point, I think there's enough continuity. Cheydinhal buildings are Morrowind like. They're not built by mud or clay, because they don't have to, there's plenty more wood there than clay. Also giant mushrooms don't grow just anywhere.

Exactly. A few Dunmer from house Hlaalu might move to Cyrodiil since they were allied with the Empire, but they certainly wouldn't be the most powerful or influential Hlaalu members. The three houses represent the political powerhouses of Morrowind. They wouldn't move away from their homeland because by being a part of a house they are clearly committed to and obsessed with influencing Morrowind's political future. Why would a powerful and respected Dunmer politician travel hundreds of miles away from home (perhaps thousands?) and settle down in Cyrodiil? What can he do from there? These are a hard people who would remain committed to their homeland until death.

It would be like saying "Why doesn't the Count of Skingrad move his castle to the Summerset Isles? I hear it's really nice over there."

I don't know, it IS 200 years later, maybe there are now some changes in the political systems by this point, especially after Dagon fell to the Nevarine, and the Oblivion Gates were sealed. Maybe there are some new territorial squabbles taking place in the other regions as well? Why isn't it possible that the new Powers-That-Be in Morrowind could have sent a rich delegate who must remain 5-10 years in Skyrim on official business opening trade routes, or negotiating territorial changes requiring help from other quarters with exports that are derived from within Skyrim?

However it happens (and I'm sure you could just as easily find another reason that better suits your own tastes than my ideas about how it happens) ... my wish is just to see the team provide a taste of continuity between the games, or else it might as well NOT be Tamriel in my opinion. Why borrow on the legacy of an Elderscrolls game and then never reference the other games in any way except to put you in a prison at the start of the game? THIS is their only act of continuity between the games? "Oh YEAH!~ You're a prisoner for the 29th time in TES-30: The Rise of Daggerfall! Where every version of our game takes you further away from what makes you identify with your own past spent playing our games, so that every new game is in no way reminiscent of this huge world we've created so you never feel connected to our past games that you loved!"

If that's the way they look at it, then why not create an entirely NEW world each game, if they are gonna just start over and leave out any integrating influences at all? Is this really a continent like Europe or a bunch of unconnected ISLANDS? The way they seem to treat their own map is that each place is entirely disconnected. Here's a question:

Why don't any of the characters talk about being in Morrowind, Hammerfell, Daggerfall, or any other province in their past life? No one is ever born in another province who has to escape to find a new life in a different one? With magic teleportation, and ships, and every other FT service at their disposal, if they had to, someone could meet the Telvanni in the morning and be back home in Cyrodil or Skyrim a few hours or a few weeks later. Doesn't anyone ever leave a province to do some official business BETWEEN the borders? It seems like the borders are also hard-coded into the Developers' minds as well, as if they are thinking, THIS is the area for THIS game, so we can't even discuss Morrowind or Daggerfall or any other location AT ALL.

Why is that? When I lived in Europe (Germany, generically: Kaiserslautern specifically), I was always meeting French people, Italians, Swedes, and Dutch people. They came from all corners of Europe to meet in Germany, and many Germans left to visit their countries too. Because in the real world, people travel, people have adventures, and people go on business ventures. But in Tamriel, people treat the borders like hard-coded brick walls built up a mile high with signs saying "Those provinces don't exist in this game at all. Do not speak about them, do not reference them, do not include anything that was made in them in this world space or you will be shot with crossbows and spears."

"Oh, wait, those items are from Morrowind ... in the forbidden zone so we can't discuss those two things either. Strike that last threat."

Except, none of that is true, is it?

To a certain extent, sure, the borders will come across as walls. Because they are invisible walls in the game. You won't be able to see people travelling across them, merchants coming and going from one province to another. But you saw the Imperial Legion in Morrowind - moving into a neighbouring territory and trying to overthrow their culture and religion. You can find a group of smugglers (Morag Tong, I think) in the Valus mountains in Oblivion, smuggling skooma into the province from Morrowind. Cheydinhal shows distinct signs of Dunmer architecture, the same way many new towns in Morrowind like Seyda Neen and Pelagiad showed distinct signs of Imperial design. Cyrodiilic Brandy and the infamous Colovian Fur Helm could be found in Morrowind, and guess where they must have come from? in Oblivion, the NPCs regularly discuss news from 'the other provinces of Tamriel', even if they do only have one topic for each. Go talk to several random NPCs in Oblivion and you'll find that many of them have moved here from another province. There's a Dunmer in the Waterfront District who moved to Cyrodiil after Ravenrock fell through on Solstheim for example.

You can't cross the borders yourself because it's far too much work to create the whole of Tamriel in one game right now. They would never be able to do each culture justice, and the world size would suffer as a result. So you'll just have to deal with not being able to cross those borders, or see others cross them for the time being. But the residents of Tamriel do acknowledge the other provinces, and do share trade and culture (both amicably and forcibly) between them. I'm sure they'll do an even better job of conveying this in Skyrim with their focus on culture, but don't lie and pretend it didn't already exist in previous games.

Well, you seem very knowledgeable about this, and even include a few quotes to help convince me that I may have forgotten those references if I ever saw them. I've searched my memories quite extensively before I wrote what I did, even went and looked at some old snapshots of my games that I keep like an old photo album of my MW days. I just don't remember that. But I trust you after reading your examples. I do remember Pelagiad having the Imperial style, now that you mentioned the name. Thanks, that does help a little.

As far as your assertion that NONE of what you quoted from what I wrote being true, you included my own personal history of being in Europe into your assertion. It was true, I lived it, and I was explaining what I experience in Europe. And I'm sure you're overselling your point a bit, because some of it is true. Otherwise I wouldn't have half or more of the replies in this thread agreeing with me.

I don't want to turn this thread into one of those nasty squabbling debates, I just want to express my desire to see more continuity in some way to remind us those other places still exist, still function, and still affect the world we're in to some minor degree. It wouldn't be that hard, and there's harm in asking anyway.