I was browsing some lore, and came across http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Light_and_the_Dark

A kapla is a thousand years or something, maybe?

And before that, there is this (not hard to figure out who is who). Reminded me of that fragment MK posted, about a battle.

heh - MK bases his Lore on previous Lore eh? That's the way it should be

And ty Alaisiagae for reminding me about the Light and the Dark - must be a decade since I read that. It all sorta potentially fits up to a point. But even if it is what is behind things we can be sure it is not so :shifty: straightforward ...

This was some interesting reading... now I just have to find the pieces of my brain.

Nobody has answered my question about other pantheons fighting each other.

Most of the stuff I've read is stuff I've thought of before.

Yeah same here but a lot was kind of confusing for myself at the moment.

"Creation myth? Hoo boy. First off, that whole phrase smacks of Monkey Talk-- and we thank Talos to this day for their turn at Glenumbria-- or the Wheel-Eyed Wonderment of the east devils-- who at least have the wheel part right, but that's so obvious as to offend your own navel, which is to say, wasting the time of even wasting time-- but I guess that's what you want to hear about, really: time. Our place in it now, our place in it then. Well, you've earned the truth of it then: you've taken your first tusk and been kissed by a Kyne Wife, so fine.

"The Nords you know are the Nords that were, and any formalization beyond that is southern comfort. We came from Skyrim since the end of the beginning of the last end... and so on as sung by the ysgrimskalds of the world. What's that now? We're descended from the gods? So that must mean, what, they went away at some point and then we started? Sure, that's all true, and, yes, there was a war with the gods of Old Mary where Shor died, and, yes, Old Mary's own stories of "how everything started" are just as true as ours. The untangling of it all, though, is where examining the tree nets you nothing for the basket because the fruit is all dead by the time you've reached any sensible conclusion. Which is to say, there is no conclusion, my lad, there is only the telling, and only time will tell the dead, for only by the dead can we tell the time, and so of course it all must fit together, all versions of every last telling, whereso or whensoever it comes from. Yes? Elsewise we'd never have time to tell it again.

"See now why asking the Nords for their creation myth is as unbearable to hear for them as it is for you to hear their never-really-an-answer? We'll never think that way, at least not long enough for what some would consider the "proper" amount of time-- it's just not how our brainpans were built. As a rule, we change our minds a lot, and properly so, which drives the other take on properlarity crazy. It's intrinsic to our nature; to live in the North is to live with a mind that dances near the hearth lest it slow like old Herkel's lot. (That's what happened to the Dwarves, by the way: their minds froze to death by thinking one thing over and over until poof, gone in a belch of a mountain.)

"But I can see by the droop of your shoulders that none of this has met to your satisfaction. Let me show you then, the proper way to ask the Nords their proper place in history: ask them to tell you the oldest story they know that's also the best. That will get you as close to a creation myth as anything else, even if the next telling changes it a bit, but that's beside the point of being the point.

"Just because we hate to waste time in Skyrim, we have lots of it to use with nothing else to do, and there's no better way to use up time without wasting it than by telling a good story. And the best of the oldest stories we still know is [untranslatable], which I guess you'll probably want to hear after you get me another round."

***

Another story for another time, maybe. http://img353.imageshack.us/my.php?image=p1050551wb4.jpg got tired of listening to the old man go on and on and on.

Merry X-Mas, everyone, the snows a'comin',

MK

hmmm ... (trying to sound wise to himself) ... that link is dead for me - even with intranet settings enabled

dwemer - "though love may be strong, a habit is stronger, and I'll know when I love by the way I behave" - from the Last Unicorn by Peter S Beagle - powerful things are habits


- I seem to remember this bit: "ask them to tell you the oldest story they know that's also the best. That will get you as close to a creation myth as anything else," is it a quote from an ES book?

I always knew Santa was a Nord. I wonder is I can get the one at the mall to read that aloud.



http://www.intellicast.com/National/Radar/Current.aspx?location=default, your're right. Want us to punt some of it back towards California?

I'd always attributed the lack of Noridic myths in the Monomyth as caused by a lack of time, but this works too. Kinda like how the Daedra keep changing in the void, don't want to void-freeze to death.

Ecstatic that my Nord creation myth question has finally been answered.

Thank you, sir.

Merry Christmas and Joyous Kwanzaa.

*applause* Thanks for that and Merry Christmas everyone!

Merry Christmas!

TES V: Skyrim, it is, then. But it's Akavir next, right Mike m'boy!?

...

...right?

:foodndrink:

Merry Christmas to the four corners and beyond! :celebrate:

Awesome. Now to have that confirmed and we can start planning the TES5 release party . Boy, oh boy, Skyrim plus things that have to do with time, end and the begining... this should be better than Oblivion, second best TES(second only to Morrowind).

In an assault of ignorant bluntness I'm just going to postulate that perhaps it's like one of the theories about our universe. They say "big bang" started it all. But there's those who say that things "always were". There is no start point. It's an endless cycle of bangs and crunches. The law of energy rules all and there can be no creation or destruction. It's just change in the end and by this definition we are truly part of the whole.

So why not in TES as well eh?

Well, no.

The Big Bang started it all, yeah, and the universe always was because time did not exist before the universe, so there can't be anything "before" the Big Bang as it is a meaningless statement. Things always were, since the Dawn of Time; it just happens that the Dawn of Time is literally the dawn of time itself. And we call it the Big Bang.

As for the Big Crunch, it won't happen. We weighed the universe, using various experiments and astronomical observations, and found out that it had not enough mass to overcome inertia from expansion (to the contrary, it seems like the expansion speed might be accelerating). So, no. No endless cycles. A beginning, but no end, a sanity-defying vastness promised to infinite loneliness as eventually all stars will be burnt out and all life will disappear in the cold.

You can think of time as the measure of the universe's size. It started at just a bit above zero, and from then on ever increased.

Merry Christmas Gez - have you considered that movement contains energy. About the start of the RL Univers, that is mostly theory and best guesses still - there may be a lot of stuff just awaiting around the corner to change our view of things any time now

It appears there was a cataclysmic event ... we call it the Big Bang - it could be as you say, but it still might be something different from what we think.

Almidor2 - For TES take a look at the Monomyth - and note the title contains the word 'myth' = something that gets overlooked.

It seems something major happened in the TES Mundus about 7k years ago - and that's the time frame we have atm - not long enough for a big-bang event really - and the stuff in the monomyth ... ? Who knows what contradictions the next TES release will bring? I suspect that is what MK is preparing us for. A point of view that has not really been fully represented yet.

- and a Happy New Kalpa

You're a really cool and diverse writer, MK.

Happy Holidays! :dance:

Interesting about Nord Creation Myth- or, rather, the lack thereof... *ponders*

Indeed a Happy New Kalpa

You are too sure for your own good there Neither theory is accepted and the cycle of bangs and crunches is actually one of the possible ones. Big freeze is another.

Your POV about time is also a bit odd. Depending on which theories you take into consideration time can be as little as "state change", in which case there's no "timeless point" and there's no start. People view things too linearly IMHO.

Anyways my point was that things always were and will be, time is an illusion and the point of it all is itself. But I went a bit off here

Happy New Year btw

Yes - it's all down to the point of view.

So what you're saying is, the next game will be the beginning of the non-beginning; if you will, a game where the beginning will have already dusked. Perhaphs we'll see a lot of bright light at the end of a brighter tunnel?

That depends