Assume "The Dawn Era was the End of the Previous Kalpa. The new Kalpa begins with the first day of the Merethic Era."

Then put on your lore-hats and start looking hard at the ramifications of that.

Compile, sort, think, post.

Help.

Love,

MK

I'll have to take my pants off to solve this one.

Yes.

Quite frankly, we need some tea, too.

For me without sugar please.

Challenging to think about. The Dawn Era was nonlinear time, but are the people of the Fourth Era still living in the Merethic Era? Or is their era a successor to the Merethic; the age of Man instead of elf.

I get the feeling MK could be thinking of time as the Worm Ourobouros, a snake devouring its own tail. That's more of a guess on my part than a theory, though.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ouroborous

(duplicate post)

Minor rambling:

the metaphysical degeneration of Aurbis' anchor, Nirn, would congeal the Aurbis into one singular thing, wouldn't it? Theoretically, this would somehow recreate a dawn state. The way things are going in TES appears quite systematic in its dissipation; since it's been happening a while anyway, I'm sure we're going to see myth echos of relevant symbols soon again, but on a much more grandiose scale. That last bit is probably more subjective than my other assertions, and I hate that it sounds somewhat stereotypical in the sense that all crap has to end in a grand action-movie-style mega explosion fashion.

Your "parents" statement of course makes me think of the Ouroboros-esque idea that everything -- EVERYTHING -- is repetitive and cyclical; apparently, my old theory that somehow kalpas are unique appears to be incorrect. I'm guessing we -- indirectly or somehow directly -- facilitate the creation of the kalpa we already exist in.

I'll be honest: I really don't know where to start to give a more coherent answer.

You start right there.

To none and all,

The first thing that comes to my mind is the rather suggestion that the current Kalpa will likewise end in a Dawn-like state of dissolution. If I remember correctly, beings were coming onto death and discovering their mortality for the first time [in ages]. Mayhaps the end of this Kalpa will bring beings into discovering everlasting life? The Loveletter certainly paints a much more metaphysically aware picture of the 5th. A return to divinity is in logical order.

I do feel however that this observation is simplistic. There surely must be more to this than that.

I also have some ideas about connecting this all to the possibility of the Marukhati Aedra, though they are far from definite. If the theory is taken to be true then the "want to give birth to your own parents" makes a lot of sense in a metaphorical anolysis. I am however only a neophyte in this school of thought.

Does "help" suggest that you yourself are not sure what the statement implies? Or is it a directive to help each other understand?

Nice to see a post from the master,
Ayaan-Si

Ps. World-Eating .: Satak .: Ouroboros...

I wonder if we're seeing not just the end of an Era, the Third, but the end of a kalpa. But how long will the end of days take? Maybe the end of the world, and its rebirth, is still centuries away.

That represents the mortal world, is the selfish illusion of individuality and freedom of choice, which results in a schizophrenic tangle of 'theoretical' possibilities.

This is really just an illusion, as all possible routes inenvitably lead back to absorbicide of one sort or other, in which gods re-congeal in approximation of the original aurbic et-ada, then spontaneously (Since convention and creation occur in a timeless moment) decay back into variable simulation.


Rather than asking if I want to give birth to my father, a better question would be to ask if I wanted to BE my own father, since I am. I just dont realize it.



[detailed explanation for the above pontification follows]

The original spirits "original" form was a dissolute aether of mixed probabilities, out of which a unifying and aggregating factor, known afterwards as time, formed. Time gave each bit of chaotic data an individual purpose, while still maintaining total system chaos; Remove time, and all the paths of the other aedra and daedra look exactly the same as they did in this chaotic aetherial state.

The Mundus is a copy-cat approximation of the same, using mortals as the surrogates for divine chaotic data. Mortals mill about in the mundus at "Random", but provide the fodder for new congealed mundus-gods to be formed-- The mythic precident for the creation of mundus will unfold again with these new 'gods', and another layer of onion-skin reality will be produced.

An egg, in an egg, in an egg, in an egg......................

You lazy, pedantic bastards. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=atNMZS7Rfuw. Now get to work!

syronj,

For a while now I have had the crazy thought that the Seven Thousand Steps of High Hrothgar each correspond to a year in Nirn's history. MK has previously stated that Nirn is roughly six thousand years old, which would leave us with a approximately one thousand years remaining. Plenty for two, or more, eras to follow suit.

The world is just an endless cycle of endlessly repeated actions? Meaning that everything that is happening already has happened and will happen again?

I'm no mythology expert.

I was dancing alone when I first saw you,
A silhouette in the blur of my happy vertigo.
I waited for the world to become solid,
But could see you no longer.

I wept a stream of prisms,
And found you in the refractions.
I wiped my eyes to see you better,
Only to rediscover my solitude.

Then I went looking for you,
But you found me first, secretly.
You were dressed like a beggar,
And I gave you a pearl.

You sat your pan down at your side,
Then stood up, smiling like a child.
I found my hands caught up in yours,
And suddenly we were dancing.

Then I recognized you,
A silhouette in the blur of my happy vertigo.
But before I was leading,
And now you were.

Were my tears of saddness or of joy?

Pedantic-- HRMPH. This coming from the word-poet king himself.

I am merely responding in the way as is my nature. If you dont like the answer, that's your choice.


And for the record, i am responding from the bathtub, which totally trumps pants removal AND tea.


Now, if you wont complain about being my being even MORE pedantic:


If we are to take the statement that mythic aurbis is holographic in nature, (In the actual sense of what a hologram is, and not the scifi lightshow kind) then each person is already a universe exploding inwardly in infinity, mimicking the higher layer above in absolute perfection.

If you want something other than perpetual boringness, then you have to kill that anology. It is not hologram-- it is brute force progression.

The purpose of the universe is to understand infinity, and variation, afterall. We are just actors. We take to the stage again and again. It is not our place to rewrite the script.

(That is to say, the FULL screenplay already has each of us doing everything that is possible, and everything that is not, and so, rewriting the script is pointless anyway.)

No, one thing is new in every kalpa. I should probably add that. No, I won't tell you what I mean by "new".

Further clarification: perhaps look at the statement from the lens of cultures that don't normally use the term "kalpa"..?

Guilty. Sorry.

I'm probably being too literal, but here's what I got from the video: maybe the music from the heavens that no one can resist is a symbol for mystic or religious revelation? I'm also reminded of the dance of Kali. But others of you can explore these ideas better than I can.

Edit: The new thing in every era could be a subcreation, I guess, such as intelligent beings (mortals) who surpass their creators (such as Lorkhan, failing so that his creations wouldn't).

Numerological [censored] is starting to click in my head a lil. Thanks to Ayaan-Si for making me recall the Loveletter some. Once again, rambling. Behold:

I agree with Ayaan's 5th era assertion. If this is true, it's not really suprising: 5 is a number of completeness: five fingers on a hand, 2 arms, 2 legs, and the head of a body et al. Hell, the "way of the fifth" is the Enantiomorph -- Love itself (recall that the fifth Walking Way listed in the Loveletter is the Enantiomorph).

Whenever I see Vivec mention the five corners of the world, I think of the theoretical 5 dimensions of existence. The 4th of these is Time. The 5 of these (can be) all of existence.

Personally I see the number 4 as a "means to an end" type of number. Four Horseman bring about the apocalypse. Four Noble Truths lead to enlightenment.

There is going to be quite a cataclysm in the 4th coming era. Something that will bring some form of completeness in the 5th. I'm more focused on this particular aspect.

Going on what the above said, and combining it with what I thought, and thinking even more...

The gods are just former mortals who achieved CHIM and are taking the place of the old Gods? Meaning that Akatosh=Lorkhan because Lorkhan was the 'Akatosh' of the previous 'kalpa', and when Akatosh removed his heart, he officially brought about the end of the previous kalpa and the beginning of the new kalpa?

CHIM is different from other walking paths. Not ALL of those who achieved apotheosis used CHIM. Check the Prolix Tower and Numidium.

The new kalpa begins after Lorkhan dies.

1 kalpa = from void to state-gradient Z?

P_I v P_Y

A_I

T_I --> ~(J & T)_Y

~(P_I)_Y --> (A --> U)_L

~(B_I)_Y --> [~(A --> U) & F_U ]

M_U(I & V) & (S & S)_W & (~R)_W

[(E & ~ E) --> (~R)_W]_W


See, I can be overly technical and miss the point too!

We need to get Albides in here. Solin also, if I had my choice.