There is no perfectly good reason that has been stated for BGS to make their games any bigger. In terms of quality and detail, they make the biggest and best open worlds in the gaming industry.

This is the key statement that defines all games, especially those dealing with large worlds. "It's not the size of the world that matters, but how developers use the size that they are given."

Scale isn't really that legitimate of an argument for the TES titles, so much as it is the Fallout Titles. Since Fallout is based on actual, recognizable areas in America, it's much harder to suspend one's disbelief when the Hoover Dam and Nellis AFB are a mere 3minute hike apart. TES though, we have no real anology to draw upon, so it's fine for the most part, though at some level, I do believe we sense that it doesn't feel right.

Your opinion and I respect that. I don't agree though, so see why it's always a lose/lose for the devs? Who should they cater to, you or me?

Never felt that Oblivion was too small. Did feel that New Vegas is too small, even though it's supposed to be the same size as Fallout 3 that is supposed to be only tiny bit smaller than Oblivion. So it's how you use that space, not so much how much you have.

And this is the point I was trying to make by anolyzing the games in the list OP linked. There is no point in bringing up other non-Bethesda games (with the possible exception of GTA games but those are all smaller in size and scope) and their land masses in a thread about whether or not Skyrim is too small. To do so is to trivialize the detail the game will have. That, unintentionally, turns the discussion into a "Mine is bigger" debate.

If the dungeons in Oblivion were unique I would not have felt that it was too cluttered, that its scale was ridiculous. Arguing that there was too much in Oblivion gives developers the OK to make a similar sized world with less content. Skyrim is looking to have the same amount of content, but less repetitive and more unique, with a world that is about the same size but will feel considerably larger. I'm happy with that.

the thing OP is not thinking about is caves as well, it's now not just the map you see but all the underground areas you visit as well
to me having a huge world can get frustrating at times because it takes way to long for me to walk there. i prefer the smaller size seeing that movement is not as fast in ES games than others

Cramped up is the best reason imo. Scaling is directly connected to that, especially since BGS's games have so much content. It would be better to spread it out in a somewhat bigger area.

And people need to think that I'm saying BIGGER area. How big? Who knows. I think 70-80 square kilometers would be a perfect balance. Size does matter for the reasons I just stated. I and I know a lot of other people disliked how you walked up to a dungeon every 30 second in Oblivion.

A world being cramped up is imo very very bad and should be avoided.

We already know that Skyrim will only have 120ish dungeons, which is about a third of what Oblivion had. The area won't be cramped, because BGS is cutting down on generic, cookie-cutter dungeons and replacing them with meaningful, unique, and diverse dungeons that are more spread out. This alone already justifies why a bigger area isn't needed. Again, Oblivion was big enough. BGS just miscalculated how having so many dungeons and generated environments would make the environments seem cramped, repetitive, and smaller as a result.

I'm fine with the Skyrim map being pretty much the same size as Oblivion's. I liked the size of the map in Oblivion. If Skyrim offers more distinct and diverse regions to explore (rolling plains, arctic tundra, a nice thick forest to hunt in, snowy mountains, etc.) and manages to give us lots of interesting things to do within these different regions, than that is enough for me.

I hope it Feels like Morrowind size i really think Oblivion felt too small , way too small mainly for that crazy fast travel everywhere from the begining , my opinion of course :icecream:

JS Oblivion was bigger

How about 5 cities that are even bigger than the Imperial City in Oblivion?
About 20 towns/villages?
Those 120 dungeons + like 100 other locations of "interest"?
Plus a lot of mountains that do take up a lot of space.

I don't know if it will be cramped up or not. I've just said that there's still a risk. And you can't possibly know either, unless you've played Skyrim already.

There's a fine-line between a detailed and cramped up world. I hope Bethesda has learned that cramped up is not a good thing. It, imo, hurts the immersion and hurts the feeling of exploration a lot.

iam 50/50 on the size being a new engine i would have thought they could make a bigger map, then again they might have done it to see how the new engine runs still Fallout 4 and the next elder scrolls could be bigger with more content i'am just hoping they haven't crammed all the cities together

they actually said that is bigger than the average size

Bingo!

Let's put a little faith in the people who brought us Morrowind and Oblivion, shall we?

Again, it all depends on how BGS uses the land they have available. In terms of content, this game will be a lot bigger than Oblivion. It's a balancing act ultimately, and I'm sure BGS is more than aware and capable. Just look at what they did with Fallout 3. Did you feel cramped in that game as well? I didn't personally.

I don't know where, but I have a very very strong memory I read in an article (I think today) how the 5 major cities were bigger than the Imperial City in Oblivion.

Here's one article that mentions it. It's in Swedish, but you can use google translate (if it translates correctly...) if you don't trust me. http://www.gamereactor.se/forhandstittar/26990/The+Elder+Scrolls+V%3A+Skyrim/

"Det blir rej?lt med utforskande i Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim. Totalt finns nio distrikt i v?rlden, varav fem av dem inneh?ller st?der som ?r minst lika stora som Imperial City i Oblivion."

"It will be a lot of exploring in Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim. Totally there are nine districts in the world, of which five of them contain cities that are at least as big as Imperial City in Oblivion."

Who should they cater to, me or you? See why it's a lose/lose situation for the devs no matter what.

My first instinct is to say it should have been bigger but oblivion was pretty big. It just felt small due to the world design because you could see from one end to the other and you could pretty much walk a straight line across the dull repetitive landscape without much obstruction.
If you compare oblivion to Morrowind, Morrowind feels bigger despite the fact that it actually isn't because of the way it was designed. You couldnt just walk in a straight line from town to town or wherever you were going because there were hill and mountains in the way. This is why I think the kept the same size; because they knew with proper design and taking advantage of landscapes and stuff it could feel bigger without actually being so.

Oblivion to me was huge, also, they said it would be even harder to travel by foot because of the mountains...

I'll admit I had hoped for a bigger map. Oblivion felt pretty cramped with so many dungeons everywhere and the distances between towns were short. I like to feel a bit lost in the land, to feel like a hunter or traveler and I can't if I run into a village/inn/hut every 20 seconds. And horses were not exactly helping the world feel larger. For me a great TES map would have the distances between cities something like Bruma-Leyawiin. that would probably require a map 4x or 5x bigger than Oblivion. Sorry if it is unrealistic from a developer point of view, but that's my dream. A map where you can actually get lost in the woods, where horses are really valuable and where a traveler will have to plan his route and rest if he doesn't like to travel at night.

Why do you think a dev should "cater" to me or you? Who has said that? They should make their own decision, but they should listen to their fans and what they want and take that into consideration. As many fans as possible, they should listen to.

A world size 4-5x larger than Oblivion isn't unrealistic. The problem with it is a lot of it would have to be randomly generated, because that's simply too large an area for the developers to hand-place things given the scope of the rest of the game. Generated landscapes was what everyone complained about in Oblivion.

this.

also, there's a big canyon in the west called the reach. it looks cool to explore.

i never explored the whole oblivion map because it was all so similar. there's also a vast region east of nibenay with no cities in it.

In my opinion ( even though I haven't played skyrim yet )I think the Size of the world is fine.. Morrowwinds was smaller than Cyrodill and Skyrim is going to be a bit smaller than Cryodill but bigger than Morrowwinds.. I for one don't Click on a city I want to go to and appear there ( not saying you do just puting it out there ) I walk, run or ride a horse in the land to find huts, Inns, Caves, Dungeons, ruins, camps and etc.. I think anything bigger than Cyrodill is too much to explore.. But that is just my opinion..

I will give my full opinion on this when the game is released.. Because at the moment the world to me sound pretty big.. Anything bigger would be too long to explore plus all those side quests and Guilds I think its going to be fine..