but this is NOT what TES is all about. TES is about being able to talk to anyone, go anywhere, and kill anyone. [censored], its like fallout has seriously melted everyone's brain; all filler no thriller a good TES does not make.

Says the penguin in the metal suit that repeats he doesn't like my idea over and over and over and over and over and over.

"Filler NPC's!"

"Nao! Fillar NPC's not liek?"

"What?"

"Yeah!"

"You not understand engine!"

"I don't think you're capable of understanding the engine either, metal suit penguin. Let's be honest here."

"I leik schedule bettar than people that go bye bye."

"I'm sure you do."

You can still kill anyone. ;D

You can just also kill insignificant NPC's that don't have names now, besides killing your insignificant named NPC's. Although you could still do that. I'm not asking for them to remove the insignificant ones, just add more that can give the illusion of a crowded city. Is all.

Meh...I'd rather have em named. Even if the name was randomly generated, killing Me Wa-ja in Starlight Waterworks is better than killing theif bandit in Cave 3.

I was referring to city NPC's, but they might randomly name the bandits you see around.

The same still stands though. I'd rather kill Me Wa-ja rather than lumberjack. A name makes it feel as if the person had a real life, had a story to them, and killing them would mean you're killing Me Wa-ja. But if I'm killing lumberjack...or town npc...then it feels as if you're killing just another npc, nothing special to them, and that they're just there to fill space...killing them wouldn't change anything or affect anyone.

Yes, because there are billions of people in a single city in reality.

And obviously, billions of people and houses can fit in a ~16 square mile world.

Not like bandits ever did... Have they ever affected anyone? The only NPC's that were worth a damn were Quest NPC's and Merchants. That's about it.

I wouldn't mind though, randomized names.

Granted, the numbers were obviously over-exagerated. But you get my point.

The highest populated city in the world, Bejing, sits at 13,831,900 people.

Edit: Woops, that went RIGHT over my head.

Well, at least I educated SOMEBODY. I think.

OWNED.

I'd be a pain to do but they could creat families, real living breathing comunities, and bussiling markets. Making killing even a single family member show for something, given every action an effect. That's the way I'd like to see them take it. It woudln't be easy, but the reward would be much greater.

I agree with you, a dozen or two pointless NPCs in each city or district would fit in quite nicely IMO; they will add a little flavor to the visual background. I would actually care more if they are there than no one there at all. I agree with strolling through Skingrad and finding 3 or 4 people and a few guards(which are generic BTW). It felt empty and those 3 or 4 people had names, schedules, etc...and most of the time I had no desire to talk with them.

Also, not everyone needs a home. Historically, most citizens did not own homes. They slept in inns (sometimes 2 or 3 to a bed), under hedges, stables, and in alleys. I don't think anyone in Skyrim will be sleeping on the streets except beggers but maybe the others can sleep in inns. Just make the inns larger which shouldn't cause too many problems with more generic rooms.

"It is illogical to suffer consequences later when you can prevent them now." - Grimick

Didn't they sing "Heart and Soul"?

More than two are ganging up on you.

TES isn't Assassin's Creed. I love the Assassin's Creed games, and the amount of people in them, but it just wouldn't work with the "feel" of this particular game.

Not to mention the fact that the engine couldn't really support it on your scale.

I will agree with this and was thinking this myself. They should utilize inn's more for citizens so that they can have more citizens per city without needing more houses because realistically, not everyone owns a house.

One important point people seem to overlook is that there is no more locking on each NPC when you talk to them, there basically won't be any changes between filler dialogue of filler NPCs and normal dialogue except you won't get to answer to a simple passerby.

Hardly. There were a lot of NPCs in Oblivion that weren't associated with any quests but had interesting quirks, or had something interesting to say outside of their related quest(s).. depending on where your interests lie (eg, I like talking to beast races because I find them interesting, even though "unimportant" ones only have about one or two unique things to say; sometimes a bit more). If I walk up to a specific NPC and activate them, I'm already taking initiative to interact with them. I don't need the game telling me "no, you can't talk to this person" after I've already decided to talk to them. They may as well not be there if I can't interact with them in any meaningful way.

I LOLed. Well played.

AC sized city populations would be too much, for me, in a TES game. Almost annoying, now that I think about it... in AC you can specifically run on rooftops and deep in alleyways to avoid the insane crowd... which, I understand, is how most huge cities in older times were... basically waves of people. But this is Tamriel, of course... and a totally different style of game. It completely follows it's own history, population, game engine and everything.

There are definite limits and restrictions that are totally different from what AC was working with because of this. NOT that the fact bothers me one bit! I love the detail put into all the characters in Oblivion. Even down to the beggars that 'simply' had their "Eat, poop and sleep schedules"... they're beggars, what else are they supposed to do? Hahaha. But really... billions is insane, millions is still insane, thousands would just be overwhelming, and even hundreds... I don't know. No-one has seen the complete scale of the cities. But I just don't want to have to fight my way through hundreds of people who wouldn't even acknowledge me... or, especially, what my epic role in the world even is... right after a long-@ss exhausting dragon battle, simply to find the one guy/girl among seemingly none then, who does care about all that. Even IF it was possible... it would just pull further away from immersion and realism, in my opinion.

Now, I could possibly see 25 - 45 'Skyrim Villagers' wandering around, working or whatever in certain areas of each city... like chapels, market alleys, or work sites. Maybe even an occasional traveling hunting group or something simply in a pack and dressed accordingly. Even the same thing on the roads... just some people on horses, or migrating in groups... like in RedDead.

Other than that... I think we have a few more years to wait before something on the scale of even hundreds comes around, in an open world RPG such as Skyrim.

And your game is hundreds or thousands of people in that WalMart blocking your path to anyplace you need to go or anyone you need to talk to. They aren't there to shop, or to work, or do anything productive. They are just there for the sole sake of being there and do nothing but get in your way.

I agree with the OP. More NPC's, more action, more sounds in the city. Maybe not hundreds, but a step in the right direction would be appreciated.

You can argue all you want about "realism" and personality in the NPC schedule, but its bull. All the NPCs in the whole place have the same 5 voices. Only a handful have families. What about the guards? They don't have names, families, or days off... they are just "Imperial Guard." Sure the man has a job at the shop, but how does he keep that job if IM the only person who will buy things from him?

Both the OP and your desires are simply the ILLUSION of a living city, and both Illusions fall apart when examined closely. I don't really give a damn about when Adamantus Electius eats his venison. I also don't give a damn that in his basemant there are two boxes, and two cupboards, that have a paintbrush, a ceramic bowl, and some shears in them. As you said; if you can't interact with them in a meaningful way, why are they even here? What is the point of all these USELESS items, if not to provide some sort of illusion. These illusions, and the story about Mudcrabs, do NOTHING to immerse me in the world. It's all about opinion, and you calling him ignorant over it is wrong. You are taking the OPs illustrative examples (AC, Billions) far too literally.


Playing Oblivion with Better Cities and Crowded Roads/Towns mods made the game WAY more interesting to me. The NPC's still had randomly generated names, still said the same garbage rumors, but when someone said "They are attacking the Merchants on the roads!" I didn't say "What merchants? I'm the only person who uses the roads!"

I have to agree with OP. I don't care about the named NPCs in Oblivion that had no impact on the game. Should they still be in there? Sure, someone needs to fill the houses. But there's not reason to not have random travelers coming and going in a city. That's realistic right? Imperial City seemed like a ghost town, and that breaks immersion more than a random NPC simply not having a name. In real life, who goes around talking to every person they encounter on the street anyway? I'm willing to bet a lot probably wouldn't stick around long for conversation. And what's the logic behind automatically knowing an NPC's name? Seriously, we don't go around town and know everyone's name, so why should we in a game that's supposed to mimic a massive world?

There's already two levels of NPCs, generic named ones, and quest-givers and shopkeepers. What's wrong with adding a third tier? Keep Oblivion's generic NPCs that fill the houses, and have mundane schedules that involve working, eating, traveling, etc. Then add unnamed NPCs. Actually they can even have randomly assigned schedules, such as eating and sleeping within certain time parameters. They could just travel between cities, staying in hostels overnight, and then no one can complain that they just disappear. It's just something to add to the illusion of a populated world (and of course no one complained about the countless generic marauders that littered the main roads in Oblivion). Also, they could respawn if they're killed, much like the Imperial guards, so the world never becomes a ghost town.

tl;dr: Keep Oblivion style generic named NPCs, and add unnamed NPCs that can respawn and travel from city to city with a simple schedule to eat and sleep in the local inns.

This is not such a bad idea, but why unnamed NPC's? Just give them a random name generator.