I just heard that with the new patch that they are completely getting rid of there level cap in Skyrim, surely that will kill the game balance?
It worries me because if they start adding stuff like this to fallout then it's days are doomed!

Well, technically there never really has been an actual 'level' cap in the Elder Scrolls games so I'm not really worried. People who just focused on the skills they really used ended up somewhere between level 30 and 50. People who went 'diehard' and raised every skill to the max got somewhere around 70. So it really depends on 'how' the level cap gets removed. The Elder Scrolls has always been a bit about just doing whatever you wanted and using skills was how your level got raised. Fallout is different, experience gets added for completing objectives so it's a different ballgame.

You can't kill what is already dead
There was hardly any balance to begin with.

i just don't understand why is this on the fallout series board o_O Also like someone said there has always been a level cap in TES games. It was just really hard to get something to level 100 so it gave the feeling that there was any level cap at all

Well because Bethesda happen to develop for both series and this could end up being in fallout (I hope not) for all we know and hopefully people at Bethesda actually read this forum and adhere to out thoughts.

And there was a cap at 81 effectively.

I still hope Obsidian gets this bone >.>

And if not, I hope Skyrim will have minimal effect on future Fallouts.

Was only a matter of time.

Skyrim with guns will be a majestic incline of sheer uncontested innovation the drones will love to no end.

All seriousness aside, if that's where they're heading with their design, it doesn't sound too good.

This is the first I've heard of this. Not sure why Beth made this decision, but it doesn't matter. There will still be a level cap- whatever level you are with all skills at 100.

how to break Skyrim
Duel-Wield Maces then hold the attack button
repeat

Max out Sneak and wear the dark brotherhood handset
repeat

play the campaign and you'll get that godmode shout + get the thunder shout, you know the one
repeat

make 100 iron daggers and get Daedric Armor
repeat

Skyrim was pretty much unbalanced from the start.. as for fallout meh, what can you do...

That expresion does not always mean what you expect it to mean

In some places it means that you get less than the scraps (one versiion literaly translates as "The master gets the meat, the cur gets the bone")

just an observation.

That are what mods are good for..

Yeah, my reaction exactly. It puzzles me that Todd Howard can supposedly say he wouldn't mind seeing another New Vegas, then they do this stuff.
All we can do is wait and see what FO4 looks like, and hope Obsidian gets that New Vegas 2 afterwards.

Maybe he wants Fallout and TES to be separate franchises and do thing differently?

Wishful thinking, imo. I can see maybe Bethesda adopting the SPECIAL system, traits and perks that Obsidian provided in New Vegas, but I don't see them focusing too much on storyline or weapon balancing instead of exploration and ego-stroking. I mean ffs, it sounds like FO4 may heavily involve androids, based on the little info we have.

im much more of an optimist.
This is for skyrim. Just because they make the same games doesnt mean they are going to do something like this for a future fallout game.
ya'll are giving them flak for things they havent even done . If they doremove any level capping, ill eat my words. but i just cant see getting my feathers all in a ruffle as often as everyone else around here.

Makes you wonder what happened to the days where people didn't see a level cap as a flaw.

A level cap is basically an admission of flawed design.

If you've designed your game so that simply in the course of normal gameplay a character can become so overpowered as to make the endgame unchallenging or your character suffers no limitations then you've designed your game poorly. Fallout 2 for instance had no level cap you could ever reach in the course of normal gameplay. Fallout 1 had one at level 21 I believe but I have yet to reach it or get close to reaching it on any character in that game. Those games were designed in a way that made a level cap unnecessary. If you really wanted to farm random encounters or deathclaws for XP and grind your way up to level 21 or 99 there's no reason the game shouldn't allow that but it shouldn't be something you can do on a whim.

Level caps in the later games are necessary because the games are so strewn with XP (I have hit the level cap with multiple quests left over every time I have played New Vegas) and its so easy to max out or practically max out all the skills that no level cap would rapidly make endgame specialization worthless. As in fact it is to a large extent in Fallout 3 and New Vegas anyway (particularly in the latter without Logan's Loophole).

I'm not really sure why Bethesda retained level caps in Skyrim anyway considering what a mess that game is and allowing players to do whatever they feel like seems to be the only design philosophy Bethesda follows so it's no great surprise to see them go. I would like them to stay in Fallout for the reasons I've outlined above (although ideally the skill system would just get an overhaul and XP gain would slow down instead) but level caps are really not a good thing in games. They're an admission that you can't balance your game without artificially limiting a player's options.

both games (excluding fallout 3 with broken steel, those reavers..... the horrors.....) were already insanely unbalanced. i one hit drauger deathlords with my uber sword and one shot deathclaws with my fully automatic kill-everything-because-i-can gun.

The removal of the level cap may create challenges that didn't exist for overpowered players in the short term but ultimately lead to the same problem they already have. I think it can be used as a temporary fix. I do have a character at level 80 and I am excited to bottom out some combat stats to reignite the excitement for a challenge.

Bethesda should really consider spending more time exploring other ways to level the world around your character. Maybe with more RAM in the nextgen consoles they can increase the amount of enemies on screen to help with the difficulties they are currently having. My guess is it will take more than technique to present challenges to higher level characters.

As much as I don't want to see the system carried over to Fallout due specifically to the different leveling systems.

It's worth pointing out a few things about the Legendary feature with Skyrims new patch.

First, making skills legendary is completely optional. If you don't set them to legendary then they don't increase again, you don't level up. Anyone like me is just going to get keys skills to max and leave it at that maxed out about level 50-odd

Second, legendary skills are reset back to their game start default. So they have to be worked back up. With the apparent stronger enemies being added, it means that combat skills that are made legendary are going to be less effective against these stronger foes until they've been increased a fair bit. It's like the current system on Skyrim. Level to fifty using only one handed and then swap to two handed, ain't easy.

Third, it seems perks and perk points are refunded. You lose the boosts and abilities for those perks on that skill, and have to level the skill to the requisite point in order to retake the perks.

Fourth, I actually don't see how it would work with Fallout's leveling system. So it's irrelevant what Skyrim has. All they can do with Fallout is up the level cap and they've shown no restraint in doing that.



edit: To be honest, eventually people going for full on maxing out are just going to get bored once all quests are done and they've done every dungeon twice.

It's completely different to Fallout. I take it for granted that Fallout will always have the SPECIAL system with XP, and with that plus the way skill allocation and perks work it gives a definite level cap. ES games have always had a more...organic "level as you use" system, which means that level doesn't actually mean anything, especially towards the end of the game. You just naturally max out (if you reach that on your character of course).

They're two completely different systems, and I wouldn't worry.

TES and Fallout are different games with different audiences. Bethesda knows this. Controls and interfaces may wind up having similarities, but there's no way Fallout will become a "Post Apocalyptic version of The Elder Scrolls". Worry not. It won't happen.

took the words right out of my mouth. There pretty much is no "balance" in skyrim's game mechanics.

Are you sure they know? So far there has been only one example and it wasn't exactly convincing. And the suggestions some people here have seem like they actually want Fallrim.

Also a disturbing trend.