No, the NCR does most of the work then House rolls his army up to the dam besides the 4 securitrons that help you kill the five legion guys on the way. He waited for the NCR to fight the Legion back for a reason.

Mr.House has power and money as well as a near immortal army of securitrons, as long as he can get fully able people to do some tasks like the courier did then there is no problem.
I can't envisage a problem he couldn't deal with bar a full on take over from a sizable faction like the legion.

The main problem for House is replaceability. Yes, he has an army of killer Securitrons, but they're 200 year old pre-war tech, i.e. nobody makes them any more. If you destroy one (to the point that you can't repair it), they're gone for good. You take an NCR soldier down, or a Legionnary, there are women already giving birth to their replacements...

They made Securitrons over at Big MT, but that'd take some working to get that operational again.

(and of course, if the NCR or Legion build their own version of Yes Man...)

Which take at least 15 years to arrive on the battlefield. House likely does have the means of replacing them in the Lucky 38 (after it is fully activated, of course).


http://www.falloutwiki.com/Securitron_de-construction_plant. Dr 0 and his team tried to reverse engineer them, but failed, leaving behind hordes of broken, aggressive robots.

Valid point but surely someone of Mr.House's capabilities could rectify this problem?

How do you think he would get humanity's approval?

I'm not saying it's definitively like that, I'm saying the implications of House's actions (or in this case, lack thereof) could definitely produce such a culture over time. And it's less about them being gullible sheep but rather about them living amongst a culture where money = everything, with 1/3rd of that culture being particularly ruthless when it comes to grabbing money and power.



Side note? That made me lulz. Re-read how you wrote it.



No, no they're not.
The Legion is not; a ridiculous majority of them (99%) are willing to put the Legion before themselves.
The Kings are not. They respect others and their right to do as they please, nor will they take what isn't theirs.
The Followers are not. Their very goals are in helping humanity as a whole.
If you want to ignore these groups and argue no everyone's as selfish and greedy as the families at all times, then ok whatever, but I clearly see at least three communities (Brotherhood counts too, actually) that aren't like that.

And THAT'S what I'm saying is the problem.
Does the Strip put the Strip as a community before the themselves? No, everyone is self-interested.
Does the Strip respect others and their right to do as they please, nor will they take what isn't theirs? The majority won't take what isn't theirs, another third seems to build respect based around how much money one is caring and nothing but. The last third does qualify.
Does the Strip have a goal of helping humanity as a whole? No, they're entirely self-interested.

Does HOUSE put the Strip as a community before himself? Not exactly, but in a way yes he does. Obviously he views himself as vital for the survival of the Strip so he'd never lay down his life to save it as it'd be a logical fallacy, but he HAS kept himself alive to care for the Strip.
Does HOUSE respect others and their right to do as they please, nor will he take what isn't his? He lets people do as they please (within reason), but his takeover of the Strip and potentially surrounding areas? Yeah he just takes what he pleases.
Does HOUSE have a goal of helping humanity as a whole? Yes. I can hear some people crying that he doesn't or that he's misguided, but that's irrelevant because in House's mind and with his intent, he's trying to help.


My point is that without House, everything falls apart because he's not speaking to his people. Ignore the Courier (the exception) because he's the X factor and by design, it seems he's there so people can say "my Courier would be amazing and make everything work" for House and Legion. House is simply failing to relay that what he does, he's doing in the interest of the people and the community. People aren't seeing it, whether he does or not, which produces an immoral culture that basically learns nothing matters but money and power.

Don't get me wrong, under his rule? Sure, it'd be stable and it'd stay alive no problem. I'm simply talking about the loooooooooong-term; the moment he's gone, sh*t's gonna hit the fan because House has only shown the world the bad parts of his personality and intent, never the good. People adapt to survive, people learn from their surroundings, and yes, people are going to adopt that pragmatic, amoral and selfish attitude on a wide-scale if he continues to rule as he does; never saying a word to his people and only silently pulling the strings behind the scenes.

But that's who House IS. So long as people are working for the greater good (Which can often have bad actions for good results) and admitting House as the head honcho, he doesn't CARE. House as an entity ultimately wants to stay on top. It's why he gives the Three Families freedom without giving them freedom (If that makes sense, given your intellect, I'm sure you get my meaning). It allows the Three Families to grow in power, while still ultimately being under House's thumb, which is exactly what he wants. Rule without micro-management.

Exactly. All I'm saying is that yes, the FENV (take out New and it gets abbrieviated as FEV. COINCIDENCE?!!?) will stay a-ok, but the moment he's gone, it's going to become a self-interested cesspool that'll turn on itself, unless if he comes up with some other solution before then. I get that House is crazy-prepared and thus we have fairly good reason to believe that COULD happen, but we also have no reason to believe in any particular solution happening as none is ever mentioned.

As for how long House will live, we don't know. That's the big question. I can swear he's got a line or two (or three?) of dialog that suggests he's in no way immortal and his clock is still ticking too, but obviously his ticks much slower. I'm simply saying that House is in no way a PERMANENT solution to humanity's problems because he's really only addressing the objective problems during his reign, not the subjective ones. It'll be a golden age (for those on the Strip, at least...) during his time, but after that?

But the culture of the Strip doesn't work like that (and neither does it work like that in the region). Hard work is everything.


Yeah, "they." Proofread moar.


The Legion does not count because it's deliberately engineeredby Caesar to work like that, rooting out the self-centered tendencies of everyone.

The other two organized groups don't count either, because they're exceptional people who banded together to reach exceptional goals. The average person is only concerned with themselves and their family. We are a selfish species by default.


As is every human being. Even the NCR is in the Mojave primarily because of the Dam and the resources it provides, not because it wants to help humanity as a whole.


Yes, he does. What does House do for himself? What privileges and benefits he reserves exclusively to himself?

None. He is an immortal being that is both a king and a prisoner in his own palace. Most absolute rulers succumb to pleasures of life, the flesh in particular. House has no flesh to speak of, only his mind. He's essentially incorruptible.


In the loooooooong term, people will make up their own minds and evolve. You're treating this as a one-way road, ignoring that it's merely one of the possible routes.

Furthermore, House doesn't want to be worshipped or a role model. He's the mythical God Emperor who rules unseen and is as unfathomable as he is mysterious. You can't really say he shows the bad sides of his personality, as most people in New Vegas, both residents and visitors, have no concrete idea who or what he is and represents. He even has the nickname Not-at-Home in Gomorrah.

Regardless, you're getting too hung up on Gomorrah and ignoring that the region is more than just the Strip. You have Primm and Novac, which developed their own identities and cultures based on cooperation, Goodsprings, which emphasizes friendliness and hard work, Jacobstown, preaching tolerance and openness, and more.

Wittling my reply down to this quote, because I think it'll pretty much address everything else.

Fallout New Vegas is a form of media and a form of art. It's basically a book, in that sense. We cannot take implications from it that don't exist. My arguments I've posted are based on implications of the the culture of the Strip as we see it today, and rules of the universe as we've viewed them (survival of the fittest with philosophies, House's slow expansion within the Mojave). We have fair reason to believe House may prepare for that day when his death is approaching, because the story has implied he's crazy-prepared. However, we also have no implication that he has a specific plan for the issue I'm naming. In that sense, based on the implications of the game, yes, there is a good chance House's regime will fail once he finally passes on.

Art imitates life.

And you still haven't addressed how The Strip is going to affect all the other communities around Vegas.

As the author sees fit.

The entire premise of New Vegas is survival of the fittest with different philosophies, House pushes the Kings out of Freeside and takes over in the vast majority of his endings, he'll also effectively take over Primm in one ending. The man himself tells you he wants only the Mojave. It's reasonable to assume House is going to continue to expand throughout the Mojave, and with that, he takes over. Philosophies held by the Kings in other groups will either be cast out, opressed, killed off entirely, or the people will be forced to adopt many of the same philosophies of House and the Strip as it is now. For example, the very reason the Kings refuse any offer from House and even refuse to leave Freeside if it means their death is because the Kings personify freedom. They stay and die instead of leaving because it helps get the message across that freedom has died. That's the exact same reason why the Kings die under the Legion, but can live under democracy and Independent Vegas without extra-hard work from the player: because freedom can easily co-exist with a democracy or anarchy, but struggles to do so/flat-out can't under an autocracy.
Thus, with House expanding, his philosophy expands, and unfortunately the only philosophy he's making abundantly clear to the people via his actions is money = power and nothing else matters.

WHAT?! That's laughable. Notice in the ending where the Kings are left be by Mr. House, he doesn't force them to change their style. The only House expects is proof of loyalty to New Vegas and its independence from the Legion and NCR. Mr. House, like it or not, is still an independent city state just as much as the anarchy the courier creates via Wild Card.

The Kings aren't about freedom, it's about doing what you want so long as you got the guns to back it up, and guess what? House has those guns. Notice how the Kings are all to happy to tote their philosophy up to the point when they are conquered by the Legion, or try to fight House (Whom they start the fight with). As much as I like their personality, as a function, they're ultimately just a petty group of hoods with a highly charismatic leader. Your speech is pretty, but you blatantly misinterpret the truth to further weave the webs of your arguement, but when provided with fact, your argument falls apart.

Then why does House take Freeside if you don't even interfere and leave the Kings on bad terms with the NCR?


Then why do the Kings shoot down any thugs they see messing with people, why do they only have a problem with Orris -IF- he's corrupt, and what's the purpose of the King's speech about respect, "where every man is free to follow his own path, do his own thing. Where every man is a King in his own right?" And why are the Kings willing to die for Freeside, knowing full-well that the bots outgun them?


They tote it to the end. They DON'T drop their philosophy. Ever. They resist Legion, NCR, and House alike and are ALWAYS willing to die for it. And no, you have no proof the Kings started the fight; that's your bias talking. We don't know who started the fight, though we do know House is -technically- the foreign invader, much like NCR was to House's Strip, and we know how House reacted to that, don't we? To claim it's wrong of the Kings to defend Freeside is a delicious kind of hypocricy.


I just gave you some. Shoot them down, will you?

One could view them supporting NCR as disloyalty, ignoring them leaving the tensions status quo could be percieved as the Kings being wishy washy about what side to support their loyalties to.



Because the Kings see Freeside as their turf, ergo they must put other lesser thugs in their place. Orris isn't about corruption, The King is only caring about the problem because his guys aren't getting paid, no chivalry there. Also, 'Die for Freeside'? They die because they're thick headed about 'WE WANT IT OUR WAY'. I like the Kings for their cool image, but at the end of the day, they're still little more than Fallout 3's Tunnel Snakes.

Actually, that's not true. House told them to leave, they refused. The bots, given how they tend to behave in game, likely tried to force them out, and the Kings fought back. No one is 'right' in the matter, but that's how it is. Also, I beg to differ. To me the Old World boundries are still valid. Freeside is surrounded by the walls House had built. Freeside is just as much under his jurisdiction as any other. You can't expect protection and then not respect that persons authority. That's like NCR trying to force those squatters out of Vault 15 or whatever the number was (Without PC intervention). Freeside isn't sovereign territory, it's part of the Vegas region of the Mojave. That's just preposterous.

And I have.

It's outrageous to say they're deserving of what happens to them if they "ignore" the NCR. Such an accusation is basically on par with saying I'm guilty of assisting a murderer commit his murder just because I've never openly voiced disapproval for the murderer for his crimes.


No, it ties into their philosophy as the King words it perfectly. It's about respect. The only thing he won't tolerate is those that have a lack of respect for others, AKA, thugs or anyone else who picks fights with others. And as the King says himself Orris is simply about the King wanted a fair playing field; if it were about his boys getting paid, you wouldn't see any other bodyguards offering their services, but they're there. To say it's about the King's personal interest in money is blatantly ignoring the evidence seen within the game. The game provides no evidence to the contrary to suggest the King is full of [censored] and that he's not all about his philosophy of respect. Thus, the only conclusion the game leaves us as a work of literature is to take his word at face-value.

And yes, the Native Americans were totally thick-headed about wanting it their way too. They deserved to die for daring to resist.

And to say House owns Vegas because he saved it? No, it doesn't work like that, just like you don't OWN somebody if you save their life. You do it because you want to and because it's the right thing to do, not because it wins you real estate.


Again, you have no proof of ANY of the bolded. You're talking out of your ass. Either show me proof, or drop those points, because I promise you there's no evidence for any of them. Westside has walls aswell, as does Northside, as does Eastside in the Fiend Territory. Does that mean House bothered to make walls for all of them, the Fiends included? The last bolded part about "expecting protection" from House is especially insulting to hear, I'd imagine, as House clearly isn't doing jack-all for Freeside. You know who is? The Kings.


Your bias is showing and it's ridiculous. Every word I've spoken about the Kings is true, taking directly from in-game evidence. YOU are the one twisting things to fit the pretty painting you'd like here.

Seems at least reasonable to suggest that the Kings didn't take kindly to House's exerting of greater control over Freeside, and likely some hot-head similar in temperament to Pacer (who did this exact type of thing with the NCR) started something.

I highly doubt a Securitron was the first to start a shoot-out, but if they did. Doesn't really matter. I have no love for the Kings. Just a bunch of gang members.

They might have served a purpose when Freeside was without relative order, but once Mr. House took full control of the region, they became expendable nuisances.

At this point, I don't think it's worth arguing with you. We're to set in our way. You're more sympathetic to the Wasteland, to the individual community. I'm to sympathetic to the Old World, and the restoration of the Old World way. I'm starting to think we both see and understand each others point, just our stance is such a ferocious difference that it literally means life and death. To keep one way, the other has to die. You seem more comfortable with 'Take advantage of this new world to be independent', where as I think of 'Let the Securitrons roll into Freeside, they'll be grateful in time for what House can offer.' Neither of us are comfortable in the way the other way works.

As for your point on walls, I'm referring to Freeside because if you notice, Freesides walls are the same as The Strips, with a make shift checkpoint into The Strip between the two. But the outlying neigbourhoods are built AGAINST the wall, using one side of New Vegas' outer wall as a wall to save resources.

Right.

And I'm saying that while that seems quite logical, I'm also tempted to grab Occam's Razor and stab it through the walls, and simply say it's an "oversight" or whatever you wanna call it by the developers where the walls were simply created because the game can't handle an open-world Freeside and demands it be within it's own cell, as House has no logical reason to build walls around Freeside.

Hell, I'm sure we could have the matter solved by asking Sawyer on his formspring, if anyone has one (I too lazy to make one).

As for who started the fighting, I'm neither saying the Kings did nor didn't. I am however saying that we don't know, so to claim either way is simple bias. It's both parties involved, simple as that.

I don't know. House is shown never doing things 'for no logical reason'. I'd argue House did it with full intention of expanding into Freeside at a later time.

As for the fighting, I suppose you're right. It's hard to predict who did start the fighting between the two.

I'm genuinely curious now. Really, anyone with a formspring account?

I hear dear ol' Enclave has an account, could try asking him.

I do. You can also link your FB account to it.

Which is exactly why I don't wanna touch formspring.
So sick of Facebook seeping into everything and monitoring everything. No gtfo and let me just surf the internet in peace.
Swear I'mma probably delete my facebook if it continues to expand like it's doing.