It has been known. :tongue:

I don't ever recall hearing him say they reject Science or Technology.

They may not be heavily reliant on things as I said but that doesn't mean they don't use technology, and as I recall Caesar has a pretty helpful piece of tech in his tent, and the only thing I heard them shun is Medicine.

And you can definitely point out the hypocrisy of his auto-doc to him, while he rejects anyone else from using such instruments.

Well I thought it was apretty clear that Caesar and the Legion were not friends of technology and science by every playthrough. Rejection of technology and medicine sorta imply a rejection of science and the general innovation and progress. Unless in an upcoming DLC it's stated that Caesar has research laboratories across Arizona not sure how one could argue otherwise.

Lol.

Again, Medical Technology counts in the study of Medicine, that does not imply a direct rejection of all technology.

They want to develop new technology because the old stuff will eventually run out, Arcade said the same thing.

But those progressive nations were the result of rebooting.. They organized that they merely accepted liberal ideals from the start, allowing for humanity to progress from there. What is the purpose of having humanity go through all of those movements in our history, then reject them with the hope of achieving them again by themselves down the road. Also how does the Legion system allow for them to be achieved again? Lack off freedom, rejection of innovation, and the brainwashing of children to not question anything but the state doesn't really naturally bring out anything but stagnation. Humans require general freedom to innovate. All of this the Legion institutes results in nothing but stagnation until those ideals are overthrown in the future or somehow everything is amended (which really doens't seem possible without everything crumbling down anyways).

yes the Legion uses some technology (such as guns) and rejects even more of it.
If the Legion rejects the obvious such as Medicine and old world ideals of rationalism and humanism how is this not a people who reject science and human progress? Maybe I just missed the part where Caesar mentioned his legionary scientists. how is this not rejecting the science and progress already achieved by the pre-war world and even the NCR?

If it takes a millenia then so be it, we're so used to our modern world that we're forgetting how long we've existed on this earth.
What progress happened before can and most likely will be achieved again, it's just a matter of time.
But right now humanity does not need freedom, it needs order, it needs an iron fist to snap humanity out of kindergarten and start to behave.
What happens after order is achieved is up to the leaders of that time and how Legion might have changed by then.
But the world needs to be united more than it needs to have a bunch of brahmin lords ruling over people with it's corrupt politics.

I would enjoy debating with you some more, but I'm going to play Deus Ex, i'll reply to you tomorrow or later tonight.

Well with the glorious enlightened ideals of representative government there's always gonna be human greed and corruption. I just fail to see how an oppressive and regressive empire demolishing humanity's progress after already going through a nuclear war is better for the human race.



I've certainly enjoyed it (much better than Political Science readings ). ttyl.

Then I guess we have a difference in ideology.

As hard as it is for me to believe it, I guess we do. :sadvaultboy:

http://images.memegenerator.net/Why-you-no/File/148127/Why-you-no.jpg (lol don't have to answer this. )

Tosh.0

You could argue the Legion's actions all day long, and probably will, but their motives are for the good. They wouldn't exist if there wasn't so much corruption. The Legion is comparable to Ashur and the rest of the Pitt, I truly believe that once the Legion ensured peace, it would allow freedom to all the slaves. Would end in civilization again, without drugs, prostitution, and other atrocities that are prevalent everywhere. Sure, they tend to allow some atrocities themselves, but with everything they're fighting, it's understandable. I'm not saying that it's right, but I can't say it's completely wrong. It's a gray area, very comparable to the Matrix, where Neo, Trinity, Morpheus, etc kill innocent people to save the majority from being cattle. Like the movie or not, like the Legion or not, you can't simply say good or evil. In the long run, does it matter if you're unhappy? What does it change? If you had to choose between a hell today, and a paradise tomorrow, even if you weren't around for the tomorrow; as opposed to a limbo for eternity, or even worse, what would you choose?

Yes but all that work to make civilization of what it is now would be a waste. You cant progress back in time you need to move forward.

@Josh gro-Graz
"By civilization I meant the people are civil. And I am sure you knew what I meant about there views on technology, you dont have to be a smart ass. And how did firearms bring the atomic bomb?"

No I didn't know what you meant. Civilization does not mean being civil to one another. And the legion are not civil to one another. [censored], crucifying, enslaving, etc. are not being civil to one another. I also didn't know what you meant by what you wrote about their views on technology. Throwing away all technology and starting from scratch is stupid. It was weapons technology that caused the atomic war, not medicine, not agricultural, not industry. If he truly felt that way, Caesar would not use modern weapons, and he sure as hell wouldn't have that autodoc.

The legion is not free from corruption. Those in power can do whatever they want to anyone who is not as powerful as them. Lanius killing Dale Barton's bramin is an example. That is an abuse of power, and that is corrupt.

@Gabriel77dan
1. He doesn't allow them to use medicine so that their bodies will stay strong on their own.
--Then why does he have the autodoc? He is a hypocrite who uses technology to control people.

2. What?
--Taken out of context. Agricultural science did not bring about the atomic war.

3. I thought he explained that he only allows for the people to use what they themselves can create and to not rely on old world technology cause one day it will fail and it's better to restart anew and grow strong with the knowledge at hand.
---Then why are they using firearms/ballistic fists/etc. that they can't create themselves? Hypocracy.

4. I see no atomic warheads in Caesa'rs camp.
---Taken out of context. I was referring to the weapons technology that led to the atomic war. Medicine and agricultural science did not.

5. Isn't it a necessity for the one in charge to be able to control his/her/their people?
---Again taken out of context. He is a hypocrite. If technology is bad, then it is all bad.

6. Wrong.
7. Wrong.
----Do you really believe that if a slave refused to accept the sixual advances of a legionare, or looked at him in an offensive manner, or talked back that the legionare wouldn't kill or at the least beat the slave? Lanius killed a brahmin because it was in his way. Slaves are no better than brahmin, probably worth less. Brahmin can carry more and are less troublesome.

8. So is BOS and NCR.
----Never said they weren't. This has nothing to do with the subject at hand. This is deflection.

9. The reason I'm annoyed at these threads: Legion got shafted in FNV...
----As portrayed in New Vegas, Caesar's Legion is not best for the Mojave. Maybe FO4 will give the truth about them, but I doubt it. I think the devs get off on these arguments.

10. I don't trust the GECK's "karma" crap really, I like to make my own opinions about people, I'm sure Master would be considered evil in the GECK if FO1 had one but I still consider him a man with a noble vision.
-----Doesn't work for something you didn't make. Only the author can say that this person is bad, this one is good. And just because someone has a noble vision doesn't mean they are not evil. "You will do what I say or I will kill you." is not good; even if the end result is in their best interest. Caesar's Legion as a whole, in New Vegas, is evil.

Yeah you can argue that the Legion is an improvement over anarchic slavers and raiders in the wastes but not over the NCR or House, corruption and all.
And how did you come up with the bolded part? Seems beyond unlikely.

ya sorry...its just when you have to grow up with a attention disorder you get a huge parinoid (i possible spelled that wrong) issue...& mine is everbody hopes i die....so sorry

I don't need the GECK to tell me when I run across a ruler who tells me matter of factly his Regime is Totalitarian that he and his Lieutenants are probably evil. What good Totalitarian Regime have we ever had? The time he send you to make diplomatic overtures to a group he wants to Administer the empire he soon hopes to have and actually tells you that if they serve him he'll let them eat people was another one. BTW, you ever notice that the Legion lovers never talk about that? And as thier criticism of the NCR......Caesar actually admires Kimball and thinks his great failure was not massacuring the NCR Senate and making himself Dictator. He even goes so far to say if Kimball had done that he wouldn't be messing with the NCR at all....no doubt because he knows if someone marshaled the NCR's full strength the Legion would be crushed like a egg.




Personally, I'd take Ashur over Caesar. Somebody that can start with nothing but a handful of scavengers and a beatup suit of T-45d and create a Empire in the face of odds that look insurmountable is someone I'd rather follow than a wannabe fascist who cosplays Caligula. And as the bolded part...it's wishful thinking that only works if you ignore 90% of what your idol says or what his favorite lieutenants do with his full knowledge and approval.

Mr. House is best for Vegas, Caesars Legion is best for America.

The Legion is weak, the Enclave would yous them as target practice.

Thanks for stating facts, I definantly believe you now!

LOL Thank you, I just didn't want the Legion to win. :thumbsup:

The Legion conquers tribal's, yet the Enclave was nearly destroyed by one, nuff said.