every empire falls eventually. That being said, look at the NCR - a group of complaining, poorly guided recruits vs. a group of well trained, fanatically loyal militants. On a smaller scale, you have the new Sheriff of Primm. Easy going, sometimes faulty robot or do or die convict turned lawman (we'll leave out the NCR option due to conflict of interest). I would be interested in seeing what the legion is like on their own turf before making a final judgement. The NCR seems too tied up in their own channels right now. They have corrupt contractors, supplies and troops aren't placed where they should be, and Forlorn Hope keeps getting overrun by cazadors! You would think they could get a wing clipper with some hollow points in there to clean up the thing.

Personally, America in Fallout already fell. The only things that remains there are people trying to recreate other empires or civilizations.

According to what I've read, there is no family unit in the Legion, there is no concept of family life, parents do not raise their children. All males are required to train to be part of their fighting force. All women are slaves, honestly big deal some women get appointed to be priestesses and have the job of brainwashing the babies and overseeing the slave population and son of mars worship. I can't imagine these women are free to quit this job and do something else, pretty clever putting slaves in charge of slaves that'll make sure the job gets done in case they get demoted.
Jimmy was a slave in the Legion, he escaped, he says life was tough there but women had it the worst, they were treated like money and given as rewards.

Let's see, Vegas under the rule of the Legion:



The Legion may be better for humanity, but not for Vegas

I'm double-postin' like it's nobody's business



1. You convinced me, Legion is best.
2. I agree, murdering people and loot them is better then those bloody taxes!
3. that's cute. Like Carney said that's a strategy. Just like how using children in warfare (to make the NCR hesitate) is a strategy. Just like how enslaving people and treating them like poo is a strategy. Just like how being sixist on a tribal level is a strategy. Just like how having a psychopath as the second-in-command is a strategy. Just like how Nipton is a strategy.
But I agree with you, the Legion is like one fluffy teddy bear.
4. Yes he is, he crucifies people, is sixist, enslaves people, approves of cannibalism. He's basically the oposite of 'not a total dike'.
5. You're drunk.
6. What? People can just live in establishments. They don't even have to go to the ''harsh wastes''.

Ask yourself this," If you were the leader of the Legion, how would you improve this system?".

" No taxes and women did all the work, who can improve on a system like this?" - Old Cherokee Saying

If I was the leader, I'll give women and slaves more freedom. Like when they are capture then they are slaves for a month then promote to citizens. I'll make a two party system, one focus on war (the male party) while the other focus on medicine and science ( the female party). They will be working side by side, but whoever on top is going to get the most focus on ( or the most funds).

The two party can willingly give up power if the situation doesn't not fit them. Like the war party doesn't have wars then they switch the power to the science and health party. If the science and health party is having trouble with a war then they give there power to the war party.

Sounds, good?

I guess, my phrasing could have been better, I know well enough what happened to Rome, I was reffering to the cutlure of the city, theatre, liturature, art, etc. New Vegas has casinos whose soul purpose is to profit off the pople of the Mojave. In addition to that I actually support socialism above capitalism, but that's not the point of what I was saying.

1. Which is the only thing we know for a fact they can keep safe.
2. Yes and No they don't annex places for taxes they just let the men join the Legion then kill all the old and sick and then pimp out their women.
3. See above number 2
4. Not a total dike but definitely more then half.
5. They are brainwashed to support their leader most NCR choose to join the army.
6. Have you not seen the way they treat the slaves? Albeit we only get to see a few but until I see otherwise I'm basing it on them.

I'm not going to say what they are trying to do is completely wrong but how they do it is.

No it does not, enslaving people? no not ever can this sound or be good for any reason.

As stated before we are yet to see Legion town. If Legion territory was as horrible as people imagine it to be I bet there wouldn't be caravaners travelling there for trade. All we have right now is distorted view given out by NCR propaganda and people that are afraid.

What comes to the women being slaves I don't think it's quite the truth, it's a divide and conquer strategy. Break up the families, old ties and their spirits in the new territories to minimize the risk mutiny in the area. Slave labour from the new territories are cheap way to push your production for the time being. As enough time has passed and the slaves have lost their will to fight integrate them into the society. What comes to the family unit, I believe there is one if the officers in the legion have wives. It's just quite different and temporal from the one we know nowadays. Boys are sent to train for war at young age rarely to be seen again by their parents. The society is patriarchal and the man of the house has absolute rule over the women, they do as their told and daughters are sent to fixed marriages when they are old enough.

At this point I'd begin arguing that the Legion are undoubtedly the best answer for the Mojave, but I've been playing my House playthrough and I've been beginning to reconsider things.

I still think the Legion are the most interesting faction in the entire Fallout Universe, and one of my favourites.

There is no such thing as democracy in real life or new vegas, just a choice between a dike and an ass to make [censored] choices for you.

What this guy said

Why not? The roads are safe and the Legion has money like anyone else. Commercial opportunities don't necessarily go hand in hand with a humane society or human rights.

My bad, your right, I miss read that one.

He's quite on topic dude.
We're talking about Fallout dude... America is gone. ended. Just like Rome.

The policies of the pre-war American system are what caused its downfall, just like how Rome's late-empire policies caused its own.

Well i do look good in slave robes.

There would be hardly anyone to trade with. The Legion territories may lack of individual freedoms and some human rights, but not everyone there except the legionaries can be slaves. Otherwise the travelling merchants would be slaves or legion recruits in a no time.

Legion garrisons would still have plenty of goods to sell and many needs to be met. In fact doesn't Caesar even mention how traders keep the army supplied?

However I don't think anyone has been saying that Legion territory contains only slaves. Caesar's territory presumably has freedmen (traders such as Dale Barton are obviously free and some people mentioned in the Bill of Sale may be civilians) but that doesn't mean it's not a brutal dictatorship built upon slavery or that it can't be as bad as almost everyone in the game seems to think it is.

I would imagine trade in such a society would be very restricted. Traders would only be allowed to set up shop in approved locations, designated "bazaars", traveling between them by approved (and closely watched) routes only, selling only approved wares and subject to search at any time. Trusted traders who handle large orders (such as weapons) and who are personally known by people way up the chain of command would probably have more leeway, but your average merchant selling off the back of a pack brahmin would be expected to follow these rules to the letter, or else suffer crucifixion.

Allowing any person who calls himself a trader free access to roam the countryside would doubtless be seen by Caesar as an open invitation to any spies or subversives who wanted to infiltrate Legion territory for reasons other than commerce.

Caesar tells you his system is a Totalitarian Dictatorship by design......a lot of people don't seem to believe him.

The Legion brings structure and purity to the lands they conquer so yes New Vegas would be best for New Vegas. Mr. House would also be good for Vegas but the Legion would make it better. There methods may be brutal and wrong but thats whats so awesome about the Legion, they do what they have to do and are not afraid about doing it because some might disagree, you don't like there methods they basically say "Fine don't like the way we do things, [censored] you, your going on a cross."


Why Caesars Legion has the Right Idea by Josh gro-Graz

The reason why the majority of Fallout players dislike the Legion is because of the way they do things. We all know how they do things so there is no point in explaining it. Caesars Legion has taken over the entire Four State Commonwealth and brought stability, safety, and civilization to it, how many other factions in the Fallout universe can say the same? The reason the Legion does this immoral things is because it’s the fastest way to do it, the people who disagree with the Legions way of doing things fail to realize that they are doing the right thing. The Legion is far from evil, they are one of the few true good factions in Fallout, you probably think I am an idiot but look at the facts.

Arizona was a place dominated by raiders and viscous tribal’s, Raul said it himself, when the Legion appeared they took Arizona and transformed it into a stable region that was safe and civilized. Sure the NCR has brought safety and civilization to parts of California without these methods but they do it for a completely different reason, money and power. The NCR don’t care about there people they only care about making themselves more rich and more powerful.

The Legions views on technology is very true, what did technology bring the Fallout universe? A nuclear war that killed the majority of the population. Caesar is one of the smartest people in the Fallout universe, he has realized that in order to truly bring safety and civilization to the wasteland you can’t be nice and you have to set rules, and that is what he has done, and what has that created? One of the safest places in the Fallout Universe and one of the greatest armies in the Fallout universe. You may disagree with me but the facts are all there. The Legion is the only faction doing things the right way.

The legion does not bring civilization. Look up the definition. The legion brings pacification. The legion's view on technology is hypocritical. Medicine did not bring about the atomic war. Agricultural science did not bring about the atomic war. Caesar has no problems with using modern weapons. These brought about the atomic war. The war was caused by people wanting what other people had/ideologies - same as every other war. War is war and people will use whatever they can to kill each other. Some things only make it easier. His views on technology are only another way to control people.

His areas are only safe if you do as he says...maybe. His areas are as deadly, if not more so than any where else. Look at a legionaire wrong and he kills you. Refuse to be the six toy of one and you're crucified or thrown to dogs. They are raiders and slavers.

Until the devs come out and give us more about the legion, we have to go with what we are given. CL consists of soldiers, slaves, and a few traders. Craftsmen who cannot be soldiers (like the blacksmith in the Fort) are slaves (Siri, and Arcade if you sell him to Caesar). So once again I write: Tell us the truth devs!

Anything in Van Buren does not count. Van Buren was never made. It is the equivalent of fan fiction.

And do define "purity". The only thing pure about the legion is Caesar's megalomania.

Caesar's Legion is evil. Look it up in the G.E.C.K.

Legion supporters should really just ask themselves if they were actually in the Fallout universe would they want to live in Shady Sands or Flagstaff? The honest answer to that question sums up the whole issue with the Legion. What they are bringing compared to what the Fallout universe already has is so objectively inferior there is no rational reason to support them or the horrible methods they use.

They bring safety and stability? So does everyone else. The NCR has built a state Caesar can only dream of and they did it without being sadistically evil and wiping out two thousand years of progress in the process.

And don't cop out with the "We don't know exactly what Legion territory is like excuse" we can talk to Caesar in game and we know the things he approves of that happen right under his nose: slavery, torture, crucifixion, misogyny, sixual abuse etc. There is no way these things don't happen in the rest of the Legion's territory to some extent or another.

If I were in the Fallout Universe I would live in Flagstaff. And yes there is a rational reason to support them, they are doing the right thing. They have brought safety and stability to a region that was filled with crazy tribals and raiders. Its funny how you say the NCR have built a state that Caesar can only dream of when Caesar dislikes what the NCR has done. :facepalm: And it isn't a cop out, we don't know what I legion territory is like until we have seen it for ourselves. Did Raul say that in Arizona the people living there were being tortured and [censored]? No he said it was stable. [censored] and torture ain't stable.