Would the Stormcloaks manage to defend Skyrim?

Post » Sat Dec 17, 2011 2:41 pm

Not a chance...

If Stormcloaks win then the empire is basically shattered the Thalmar will scoop them up and and when they invade skyrim it'll be with the combined power of both the dominion and whatever is left of the empire.



Sorry, not seeing it. If Skyrim remains under Imperial (Thalmor) rule, it will grow weaker and weaker, just like the Empire has grown weaker and weaker since they signed the White-Gold Concordant.

If your hand has gangreen, you'd best amputate it. You'll lose some blood, sure, but doing nothing to "gather your strength to fight it" will just see the infection spread.
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Robert DeLarosa
 
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Post » Sat Dec 17, 2011 9:34 pm

If you read the whole great war book carefully what happened was the empire abandoned Hammerfell. If it wasn't for the Hammerfell legion general (I can't remember his name) not being happy about that and releasing the locals from the legion they would of had nothing to fight back with. So think about that the empire did absolutely nothing at all for Hammerfell but one legion general by partially disobeying orders did.


Eh? It still counts as an indirect Empire support. He actually could afford to spare the troops for the entire cause, just not officialy so I don't see a problem in that.
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Austin Suggs
 
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Post » Sun Dec 18, 2011 12:16 am

It looked hopeless for the empire. Thinking that the Empire had been crippled by the civil war in Skyrim and aided by the return of the mysterious Dwemer and their giant war machines, the Dominion launched a surprise attack which quickly defeated the lower provinces. All despaired as the invading army marched towards Solitude. Thats when we fly in, having transformed into a giant dragon, and leading an army of dragons who we have subjected to my will.

Coming to you soon in DLC
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Sun of Sammy
 
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Post » Sat Dec 17, 2011 1:57 pm

When winning is the only option for survival, the race of man has been able to pull off extraordinary things. Ysgramor sent the elves packing with his 500 companions (I'm not sure if this is all he had, but either way, it is impressive). Also, Talos IS a divine. Lore confirms it, and with the help of the Divines, Skyrim can defeat the Thalmor and the Dominion. Not through force, but through endurance. Citizens of Skyrim know the land, know the secrets of the land, and have something worth fighting for.
On top of this, dragons will forever remain a threat to Skyrim, which also means they are a threat to invaders. You come in with an army of elves, and dragons are definitely going to take notice.
Plus, Hammerfell was able to go toe-to-toe with the Dominion and survive (the rebellion is still alive and well in the words of Kematu in the quest "In My Time of Need").
I think the greybeards would eventually unleash their power upon foreign invaders if the need was great enough. Their whisper is powerful enough to kill grown men. This power alone would be a weapon against the Thalmor. Also, the DB, who is feared by all once again by the end of the questline are only present in Skyrim; few to find, but a lot to watch out for. They can strike hard and silently if they so choose.
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CHangohh BOyy
 
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Post » Sat Dec 17, 2011 8:04 pm

When winning is the only option for survival, the race of man has been able to pull off extraordinary things. Ysgramor sent the elves packing with his 500 companions (I'm not sure if this is all he had, but either way, it is impressive). Also, Talos IS a divine. Lore confirms it, and with the help of the Divines, Skyrim can defeat the Thalmor and the Dominion. Not through force, but through endurance. Citizens of Skyrim know the land, know the secrets of the land, and have something worth fighting for.
On top of this, dragons will forever remain a threat to Skyrim, which also means they are a threat to invaders. You come in with an army of elves, and dragons are definitely going to take notice.
Plus, Hammerfell was able to go toe-to-toe with the Dominion and survive (the rebellion is still alive and well in the words of Kematu in the quest "In My Time of Need").
I think the greybeards would eventually unleash their power upon foreign invaders if the need was great enough. Their whisper is powerful enough to kill grown men. This power alone would be a weapon against the Thalmor. Also, the DB, who is feared by all once again by the end of the questline are only present in Skyrim; few to find, but a lot to watch out for. They can strike hard and silently if they so choose.



You're right about the Dragons. And the Thalmor don't have the power of the Voice to combat them, either.
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Leonie Connor
 
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Post » Sat Dec 17, 2011 9:01 pm

When winning is the only option for survival, the race of man has been able to pull off extraordinary things. Ysgramor sent the elves packing with his 500 companions (I'm not sure if this is all he had, but either way, it is impressive). Also, Talos IS a divine. Lore confirms it, and with the help of the Divines, Skyrim can defeat the Thalmor and the Dominion. Not through force, but through endurance. Citizens of Skyrim know the land, know the secrets of the land, and have something worth fighting for.
On top of this, dragons will forever remain a threat to Skyrim, which also means they are a threat to invaders. You come in with an army of elves, and dragons are definitely going to take notice.
Plus, Hammerfell was able to go toe-to-toe with the Dominion and survive (the rebellion is still alive and well in the words of Kematu in the quest "In My Time of Need").
I think the greybeards would eventually unleash their power upon foreign invaders if the need was great enough. Their whisper is powerful enough to kill grown men. This power alone would be a weapon against the Thalmor. Also, the DB, who is feared by all once again by the end of the questline are only present in Skyrim; few to find, but a lot to watch out for. They can strike hard and silently if they so choose.

I actually didn't remember to take the dragons into account here. They do make Skyrim a bad place to try to invade, even of they become more peaceful.
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Peetay
 
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Post » Sat Dec 17, 2011 9:02 am

The fact that the Stormcloaks are being debated to take on the Thalmor is ridiculous.
Think of the Empire (that was based in Cyrodiil NOT Skyrim it may have been founded there but Skyrim wasn't the capital) as one massive collassal force.
The Thalmor HATE the Empire and grow to a similar size and take them on in The Great War.
The Aldmeri Dominion (The Thalmor) have got the Empire on the ropes when they get to the Imperial City. Its surrounded on 3 sides.
The Empire pull off some 300-esque style fighting and flatten the Thalmor. They're now both as weak as each other. They sign the White-Gold Concordant as a stalemate (basically half-time as the two grow in strength again for round 2) It may seem to swing a lot towards the Thalmor but lets not forget they are the invading force. Given enough irritation they could suicidally take out the Empire but at the cost of themselves.
So they pick on Hammerfall instead- the land of the Redguard (?and the Breton??) and its like a big guy who's taken 50 rounds in the ring picks on some relativley tough bloke who naturally beats him up.
The Aldmeri at full strength could have squashed Hammerfell.
Now onto Skyrim.
If The Stormcloaks win they gain considerable numbers as the Jarls would probably unite under Ulfric. This also means they have cities to defend. Without the political skill or reason of The Imperials or the tactics that the Empire have applied in warfare for hundreds of years the Stormcloaks will do what they did to beat the Empire. Go and hide and fight a guerilla war. The Holds will be overrun and the Thalmor will be ruthless to take control. Think authoritarian mass-killings of civilians so the Stormcloaks do their bidding and surrender.
Would Hammerfell come and help? I wouldn't be so sure as to why they'd risk manpower to fight a guerilla war and if the Nords lose Skyrim then suffer the vengeance of the Thalmor.
Under the Empire however the free peoples can fight under one banner as they have done before under the Septims and stop the Thalmor.
It's the most logical way.

Christ that took ages to write.
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Samantha Wood
 
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Post » Sat Dec 17, 2011 11:51 am

I don't know about the storm cloaks being able to defend against the Aldmeri Dominion. A big reason that the rebels are even a threat to imperial control is that they are able to effectively hide in the places between the cities, so as to ambush an approaching army. The Thalmor have a proven track record are finding out where enemy agents are (The Blades) and have tons of informants.
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Felix Walde
 
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Post » Sat Dec 17, 2011 2:27 pm

Eh, I don't think the Greybeards will bother to take side in this struggle. Not before their very monestary is under attack.

There are more than the greybeards. Ulfric being one of them, and just because they aren't mentioned doesn't mean they aren't all over the place.
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Naazhe Perezz
 
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Post » Sat Dec 17, 2011 10:46 am

I think theres entirely too many variables too make a decision. I guarantee that it will be something we dont see coming
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Tracy Byworth
 
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Post » Sun Dec 18, 2011 12:32 am

its all battle tactics example hammerfell its clear the rigged style of thalmor armies is weak against hit and run tactics ambushes, which seems to be the storm cloak way then you take into account logistics of maintaining an outside force in skyrim without local support, add to the effect the difficulty of maintain farmlands in skyrim
not to mention equipment given the layout of skyrim you wouldnt want to focus on locally producing weapons and armor as that would tie up assets around mines not to mention the routes in and around mines are prime for being picked off by bandits let alone organised forces

basically the storm cloaks would be slaughtered if they tried a straight out war BUT used wisely its unlikely that ANY outside force could maintain anything larger then a foothold without local support

next re enforcements for the thalmor the only way in is over mountains or by a half frozen and dangerous sea both would likely see the death of many many soldiers before they even reached skyrim and again the mountian passes leave an infexible and rigid force open to easy ambushes

beyond that you have the savagery of the lands giants, frost spiders, falmor raiders, the wildmen not to mention the freezing cold taking its toll on men and equipment

finally the Orc strongholds they cant risk being ignored and would tie up many mer to secure, even if you scatter the Orcs your left with Orc raiding parties to put down

then above all else you risk hammerfell right next door the red guards may enter the war simply because if skyrim falls its puts the thalmor next door
(remember the storm cloaks want skyrim for the nords that doesnt mean they wont allow other to fight with them as long as they dont try to take their land in fact one reason for the cold shoulder to the other races is that they wont join the fight to "free" skyrim)

all in all yes they could defend skyrim quite well but given the tactics needed skyrim would be in pretty bad shape you'd have to be prepared to let your cities burn distroy farmland to deny assest and be prepared to where the enemy down this means it would take years to defeat the thalmor (at the same time though the thalmor would be risking everything to hold skyrim in such a situation leaves them open to attack in their homelands ties up massive assests and allows the independant armies such as the empire legions time to rebuild)

then above all this you have every pissed off human sellsword (a likely occupation for former legionaires) with an axe to grind with the thalmor an option to kill more mer

you cant just take skyrim from a military stand point you have colonise it and doing so puts thalmor subjects at risk in fact taking skyrim is as dumb as hitlers push into russia, but with all that said this is TES real life approach to conflict is a moot point as the writers will decide what happens (and when it comes to writers the most often used method is: come up with a whole bunch of story lines do some coke get drunk and take turns throwing dart's at said ideas)
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Stacyia
 
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Post » Sat Dec 17, 2011 10:15 pm

No. Ulfric is a racist ass. Which means the dark elves might cause some trouble in the future, and certainly the
Spoiler
forsworn in markarth
. And im subscribing to the view that Ulfric only cares about Ulfric. I mean, there was a point in windhelm where this guy told me Ulfric doesnt care about bandits if they're not affecting nords. Thats such a just and wise tactic eh? They probably wouldnt stand a chance against the thalmor.

Also, i didn't know Nords were so invasive, apparently the falmer (snow elves) were really elves once, and apparently more superior than the high elves of now. And now they're in this state :( all due to the nords. AT first i thought they were called snow elves due to sarcasm or something.
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k a t e
 
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Post » Sat Dec 17, 2011 8:17 pm

They would take many arrows to the knee.
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Rebecca Dosch
 
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Post » Sat Dec 17, 2011 5:04 pm

No. Ulfric is a racist ass. Which means the dark elves might cause some trouble in the future, and certainly the
Spoiler
forsworn in markarth
. And im subscribing to the view that Ulfric only cares about Ulfric. I mean, there was a point in windhelm where this guy told me Ulfric doesnt care about bandits if they're not affecting nords. Thats such a just and wise tactic eh? They probably wouldnt stand a chance against the thalmor.

Also, i didn't know Nords were so invasive, apparently the falmer (snow elves) were really elves once, and apparently more superior than the high elves of now. And now they're in this state :( all due to the nords. AT first i thought they were called snow elves due to sarcasm or something.



first off the dark elves are up the creek right now and lets not forget that the damned thalmor appeasing lizards took much of their home the Dunmer have nothing to gain by entering said conflict in skyrim

the forsworn would be on the side of the forsworn as the thalmor are just as big a threat as nords if not more forsworn will kill literial everyone in the reach that isnt forsworn

as for the falmor i'll have to read up i thought they became what they are due to Dwemer experiments in any case there bigger nutjobs then the reachmen they will go on their little raids and annoy everyone untill there hunted down and butchered
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Katie Pollard
 
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Post » Sat Dec 17, 2011 9:20 am

Just gonna throw this link to a thread in the cheats and spoilers section in here for people to read :)

http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1291926-can-skyrim-survive-without-the-empire-and-is-the-dominion-as-tough-as-everyone-says/

Its debatable but Talos was a Nord born in High Rock under the name Hjalti Early-Beard who later on gained the name Talos when he demonstrated his Thu'um to the Nords. And then became Tiber Septim later when he took over the Empire when Cuhlecain died. So saying Skyrim is the home of the Empire isn't exactly true. Sure a Nord is the one who made the Empire the power house it once was. But it wasn't a Nordic Empire. Nords just happened to be a part of the Empire when Talos swayed them to his side.
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Meghan Terry
 
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Post » Sat Dec 17, 2011 9:56 pm

Well if Ulfric is a agent of you know what, would it matter?
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Milad Hajipour
 
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Post » Sat Dec 17, 2011 10:13 am

A lot of underestimating the Thalmor in this thread.
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Amy Masters
 
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Post » Sat Dec 17, 2011 9:19 pm

I think people give the Dominion to much credit. They blitzed the Empire and then lost their entire main army. Elves have a pitifully slow reproductive cycle compared to humans. Those 30 years probably brought the majority of the legions back to a respectable number. The Altmer probably don't even have half the number of the army they lost.

If anything the Dominion needed that Peace treaty more than the Empire did. Mede's intentions were pure, but it only hurt his Empire and lost him two provinces. The Summerset Isle would either be in a Naval lock down or in a couple years would be burning, if the Empire stuck through the war.
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Jason Wolf
 
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Post » Sun Dec 18, 2011 12:38 am

I doubt it. They'll be too weak from fighting the Empire. Without help from at least they Dragonborn, they'd be screwed. Even then, one man can only do so much.
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renee Duhamel
 
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Post » Sat Dec 17, 2011 9:34 am

Looking at it objectivley, the pro's and con's (From the POV of the Nords) are as follows IMHO:

Pros:

The Land, Nords know the territory. This would be a huge advantage against any invading Thalmor Army. Ambushing would play a major factor in any campaign.
The Wildlife, Bears, Sabrecats, Giants, Dragons. If the Nords could capture a Dragon (Dragonsreach) then a few bears and sabrecats wouldn't be a problem, place them in well hidden cages and let them loose on the Thalmor to use as cannon fodder then attack them when they're off guard. I've always seen giants as semi-sentinent, perhaps a few deals can be made with them to attack the Thalmor. (Just tell them that Roast Mammoth is an Elf delicacy, that'll piss the giants off).
Arctic Warfare, Lets face it, Nords never let Arctic weather bother them, in the far north of Skyrim I can see many victories against the Thalmor there.
Dragonborn (assuming it becomes canon that Dovahkiin was a Nord), having Dovahkiin on your side would be a great morale booster to the Nord forces, what better way to get into Sovengarde than to slaughter Elves at the side of the mighty Dragonborn.

Cons:
Ulfric Stormcloak, As much as I respect Ulfric from freeing Skyrim from the White-Gold Concordat. His pig-headedness and Skyrim-for-Nords attitude isn't going to help.
Numbers, I'm guessing numbers fall in the Thalmor's favor.
Magic, Yes I know that I've always stood on the side of Steel in the Warrior's vs Mages war, but Elf Magic is powerful, perhaps powerful enough to negate all the Pro's
The Empire, If the Stormcloak victory was Canon, I can see the Empire being weaker than ever, and the Thalmor forcing the Empire to send in whatever Legion troops are remaining as cannon fodder to weaken the Stormcloak forces before striking with their own forces.

As much as I want to see the Nords obliterate the Thalmor. As long as Ulfric is running Skyrim, I can't see it as an invasion he can win. Unless he changes his attitude and form an Alliance with the Redguards.
Or if he can persuede Dovahkiin to single handedly liberate Valenwood from the Thalmor... Doubtful though.
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Rude_Bitch_420
 
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Post » Sat Dec 17, 2011 11:56 am

why are people talking about stormcloaks will only do guerilla tactics? A good majority of the warriors of the stormcloaks are ex-empire soldiers. They know the tactics of the empire, they are only executing guerilla tactics in Skyrim because they are going against the people in control. Once thye do take over, do u honestly believe a country full of the Empire's greatest warriors dont know how to form an army or know anythign about warfare? I dont see a problem of th e jarls backing Ulfric once he is crowned High King, because tey are traditionists in a sense, also i know the Jarls will follow him because the stormcloaks replaces the jarls that wont follow them in the actual game for this very reason =] Also its been pointed out that ALOT of Nords hate the Thalmor weither they be Stormcloak or Empire, and once the Empire is totally driven out of Skyrim the whole "Stormcloak or Empire" business will go away.
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Josh Sabatini
 
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Post » Sat Dec 17, 2011 7:26 pm

Skyrim has Cyrodiil to the south, High Rock to the west, Morrowind to the east and Hammerfell to the south-west.

A direct land invasion of Skyrim is not possible without conquering one of these other provinces first and that would weaken the Thalmor.
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Thema
 
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Post » Sat Dec 17, 2011 10:15 am

I think Skyrim would be Tamriel's Afghanistan. My guess is, Hammerfell and Skyrim will end up holding strong...

...providing the Stormcloaks win. The Empire will just end up running north, like the dogs they are, if they keep control of Skyrim. After all, they're trying to rebuild in a plains province that will probably end up sacked.
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Dona BlackHeart
 
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Post » Sat Dec 17, 2011 3:56 pm

The Stormcloaks will prevail as long as there is a Dragonborn who can call upon the help of the Dragons and walks in the shoes of Ysgramor bringing Wuuthrad into battle for the glory of all Nords!

Also take into account that Skyrim is cold very cold indeed now think about the germans/french and Stalingrad/Moscow then think about the Mage's Guild and their power to summon ice storms and blizzards...Think about the Dark Brotherhood and poisons and Thalmor supplies...You get the drill...
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Emilie M
 
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Post » Sat Dec 17, 2011 3:23 pm

Small guerilla bands can hold off larger and more well equipped forces. They might not be able to "win", but they could certainly make it so difficult that the invaders give up and go home, especially given the extreme climate.
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Lauren Denman
 
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